Interesting read and video. I am somewhat amused that they did not choose to include one they are using in their own shop, Festool. They claim too expensive but that is relative.
Oddly the Bosch articulating saw is piss poor at dust control.
Why do you find that odd? Don't all Bosch sliders throw sawdust everywhere? My 12" sure does. So much that I wouldn't use it without a hood (or outside). Even a DC hooked to the dust port is useless.
I wonder why he didn't review the Harbor Freight. For $100 it's not a bad tool (have one of them, too).
I saw this review in the magazine that I got for a dollar at Rocklers while picking up a couple parts. They made a big deal about only testing saws in a certain rice range. Apparently anybody who wants to by this type of saw only shops certain places and only spends a certain amount of money.
I also read the comment about the Festool saw they have in their vey own shop. But they considered it to be "outside" the parameters for the reviews. I was disappointed. If this saw cost three times as much, just how and why is it better? I would like to know. Even if I did not buy one.
I did not think of the Harbor Freight model. I think a comparison between the middle of the pack against both the top and bottom of the genre would be very instructive. Probably the reason why it would never happen though is because they sell advertising to all the makers of the saws they reviewed.
I would think a top dollar tool of this caliber would have addressed this better. I really like that design, with the articulating arm. All these tests were with a vac hooked up, the stuff in the box is what got away. 10 times more getting out than other brands.
Good question, I guess he had to draw they line for at too expensive and too inexpensive. ;~)
And wants a tool from a certain Asian area, eh? ;~)
Hints are that Festool has superior dust collection and the laser is more accurate. But if you have not seen the saw in person it has a sweet way to accurately adjust the bevel and fine tune it, a crank handle. And IIRC it comes with a lot of accessories including one for measuring and transferring the angle to the saw. And it is very compact, does not need more room in the back for the carriage to slide. This link has pop up pictures showing a lot of those features I mentioned. Still $1400... I am sold on Festool but even I have limits.
Leon wrote in news:ftWdnYBD0MQM1y snipped-for-privacy@giganews.com:
I've noticed (because I've been re-reading American Woodworker mags from the 1990's) that tool review/test articles in all the journals have become incredibly poor in recent years. I suspect the cause is that the author is either given a very short time to do it, or a very limited number of pages; thus they select an incomplete set of tools, conduct a fairly superficial review in 4 pages, and end up with an "Author's Choice" best tool for some vaguely stated reason that boils down to "I liked it best".
(for perspective, when AW tested random orbit sanders in the issue I just read, they tested 33 of them, and claimed they tried to get every model on the market at that time).
John
That they are carried by Lee Valley says something about their quality. Graham
I wondered about that too. At the risk of sounding like a conspiracy nut, could it be that the other companies are regular advertisers and HF, if they advertise in WWJ at all, would just do their standard flier.
BTW, I have no experience with the HF 10" scms, but I have the 12" and am quite happy with it. I did put a better blade and a zero-clearance plate on it. And it's usually under $200.
I thought so too, until I got it home. Otherwise it's a very nice tool but it sure is messy! A hood solves the problem but at the cost of even more space and work (cleaning the hood).
The "best" and the "best for the price"? ;-)
I was just thinking about moving my SCMS to a permanent table. I knew it would take a lot of space, 30" front to back, but what really supervised me was how much of that space is wasted. About 2' from the wall, on either side of the saw, above the work, is totally wasted. Sure, one could build cabinets in that space but they wouldn't be very convenient. Then I looked at the Kapex again. Nice!
If I hadn't bought the Bosch I'd probably look hard at it again, but $1400 *is* a bit rich. Besides, my wife has learned what that shade of green means (a *lot* of another shade of green) ;-)
They're just following the example of Consumer Reports.
A very good possible reason. Imagine the stink if an inexpensive one won and was not an advertiser. I remember the stink that came up when Wood magazine tested glues several years ago. They showed that TB III was less water resistant than TB II. TiteBond's response was that TB III meets the "Hoity Toity" Water proof specs. Those specs did not mention water proof anywhere in the description, only in the name of the spec. In reality TB III failed in a test that a user would expect "water proof" to mean.
Similar to Craftsman table saws, if you are willing to put up with making a few tweaks and modifications you are good to go.
Well in that respect the test showed that the "gasp" Craftsman needs no extra room in back either. It is built similar to the Kapex in that respect.
Yeah! I would love to have one and would have to think hard about the Bosch knowing now how much dust comes out. I used to not care much about dust. I did not use a DC or shop vac. But now with my DC and Festool vac I seldom have any dust at all even after a large project. I would hate to have a dust problem again.
Probably right there. And the bigger problem too is that the testers and writers don't really seem to have a lot of experience with the best way to do things and or enough time with a type of tool to understand what is really a feature that counts for some one that uses this type tool extensively. It's like you said, with my limited experience this one seems to be best from my point of view.
Jeez, are there that many ROS out there? LOL
I don't recall hearing, in person, the articulating arm Bosch run. Is it loud? I have an old 12" Delta that you must use hearing protection just to start it up, no problem cutting wood. I quit using it in the shop when I bought my first cabinet saw. The cabinet saws produce superior quality cuts and just as accurate.
Yeah, and or the best in 3 price ranges.
Leon wrote in news:68idnTfUqry snipped-for-privacy@giganews.com:
Well, they had 4 or 5 air-powered sanders in the test, to see if there was any advantage of that style over the electric ones. (they found them to be lighter and easier to control, but to need more air than a typical small shop compressor could supply, and prone to getting lube oil from the exhaust onto the work).
John
I noticed that but it *is* a Crapsman. ;-) Seriously, like a RAS, an SCMS has to be built *very* well. Any flex in the carriage or rail will simply ruin a cut.
You seem to do pretty well without an SCMS.
You had to bring up "reason". That prevents me from buying all the time. :-). I really really can not come close to justifying buying another miter saw regardless of price. I don't use the one I have now.
But perhaps if you had one that did not have the shortcomings of your current saw you would use it?
You absolutely have a valid point and a touché moment. I made a similar loooong comment about your comment on the Domino. :-). The absolute biggest drawback of using a miter saw over my TS is the room needed for a dedicated work bench for the miter saw to make precise repeated cuts on long pieces. I once had a dedicated bench for my miter saw but once I added the DUBBY miter sleds to my cabinet saw I no longer needed the miter saw or the bench. The big advantage the miter saw would afford me is squaring the ends of stock an cutting stock to workable lengths. I normally cut stock to workable lengths with a jig saw. OTOH a miter saw would allow me to leave my TS set up for rip fence use. :-).
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