Pointless exercise with Wayne. He can talk the legs off a donkey but still can't explain his claim of two days autonomy for his system.
And yes he does all his real work during daylight hours.
Pointless or not, by quoting almost 200 lines of text you've demonstrated very aptly that you don't have any comprehension of how to carry on an online conversation. Try trimming the rhetoric next time.
The US was a manfacturing based economy. Now, everyone seems hell-bent on pretending we can get by with consumption as our watchword. When you get an entire generation or two who think that they are entitled to consume and feel no need to produce, it doesn't create the kind of environment that allows a society to ratchet up production that quickly. It's a different world now.
Good timing George, Pete has mentioned that he's going to build a solar water-heating system in the near future. As you're a *solar* power consultant, I expect you'll want to offer some tips for his project. Oh darn, I just remembered, you've written that propane-fueled water heating is more "appropriate". OK then, just tell him how many pounds of fuel you've hauled during your time off-grid, and how much cheaper and smarter you believe that is over his plan of spending a few bucks and some time fabricating a system.
I assume you'll be explaining how that differs from what most people do, why welding at night is better, and how when you're drawing 400 Amps, it makes a big difference whether or not your 60 Amps of PV is lit....
The thread is titled "workshop in a alternate home power environment", and it has included some discussion about welding in an off-grid workshop. Since you're a self-described expert welder who also claims nearly two decades of success in the professional "designing" of solar power setups, it would seem you're the perfect person to share with everyone exactly how you handle welding at your own place. I'm sure Pete and many others would be interested to hear how a "professional's" system could handle his Miller Syncrowave 250, and exactly how much of your daily energy production is available for power tools in general. Wayne
On Sun, 19 Jun 2005 06:55:57 -0500, the opaque Prometheus spake:
I'm looking forward with trepidation to the History Channel show "Boneyard" this week, starting tonight:
8-10pm EST-- Boneyard: Where Machines End Their Lives - Where do machines go when they die? From B-52 Bombers to massive aircraft carriers, from passenger cars to Cold War cruise missiles and remnants of the Twin Towers, all that we manufacture has a lifespan. But reaching the end of their original purposes can be just the beginning. Join us on a fascinating visual journey as we follow some of our greatest achievements in manufacturing, design engineering, and construction to their after-lives and final resting places.I'm keeping a box of Kleenex on the couch when I watch it. Sadly, it marks the end of an era.
-------------------------------------------- -- I'm in touch with my Inner Curmudgeon. --
That troll still lives here? Does he ever talk home power or still just a troll?
I was wondering if I should take him out of my bozo bin yet? He could have something interesting to say if he took Eunty Jeck's c*ck out of his mouth.
You need to trim better or top post , George (both would be even better for most)
Air tools are generally more compact and lighter than their electric counterparts. They can also move more energy in the same amount of time.
P.S. If you're going to reply to just one line in a post, please trim the other 170 lines.
Let's see, you responded directly to one of my posts in this very same thread, on June 14th
As I've warned you before, so long as you're posting 24-7 in dozens of groups, you're going to have trouble keeping track of which lies each of your identities has told. If you were to get off your butt once in a while and walk around a bit instead, perhaps the increased circulation would make it easier for you to keep things straight.
Wayne
Something else I've wondered about is why is it sometimes called 220, other times 230, and also 240VAC? Do the different voltages imply single or double phase or is it just a matter of different voltages in different geographic locations? My little Honda generator is rated at 125 VAC which seems to be unusual and that would give us 250 VAC if it was ran through the step-up transformer.
Since we are on the subject it occured to me that I have a 120 to 240 V transformer that I removed from the first house I bought. The not-real-bright person I bought the house from left it attached and hot with a male plug sticking out where anyone walking by could run into it. I'll have to dig it out of it's box-in-the-garage and see if I can make use of it, now that I have some understanding of how it's supposed to work and be connected :-) \
The common voltage in Canada was always 120/240v. I believe the USA was the same except that the USanians have their own measurement system for almost everything else so who knows about what they nay have done.
Equipment was rated at 100v, 115v, 117v and 120 v over the years. This was mostly just due to ignorance and foreign ignorance. The same thing happened with 240v. It was labelled 220v, 230v and 240v. Some equipment is still labelled at 250v which is only a class of equipment distinction. (max capability).
This all applies to single phase descriptions. Some of the confusion can attributed to 3 phase systems were 208v, 220v and 240v have been used and bleeds over into single phase systems.
600v, 3 phase systems went through the same thing with 559v, 575v and 600v being used. The US and western Canada use 480V systems and I am sure went through the same crap of 440v etc..The network style voltage or as some called it "3 phase 4 wire one leg out" is used in apartment and multi dwelling complexes. They have 3 phase 4 wire transformation and run two out of three phases (with shared neutral) to each apartment floor or unit. This would give them 120/208v circuits. The 208v is quite low for the 240v baseboard and appliances so they compromise both voltages and came up with 125v/216v (root 3 factor). The 125 v is a little high but within specs (+/-10%) and the 216v is a little but within the specs also. Tougher lamps are in order to survive on this system. The end result is much less copper to feed a huge complex.
The end result is there are many terms falsely used but mostly compatible.
I hope some of this helps.
Ah, Wayne speaks again.
Wayne, I would suggest that utill you can actually supply the numbers for the system you tout as a marvel of your design prowess that you forgo giving advice.
In article , wmbjk wrote:
Ya know, you could probably make this work with a little creativity. Find a compressor that's happy running at any speed between near-zero and max, (good luck) then rig up a speed governor and a CVT (variable pulleys would probably be the most practical). Arrange it so that the governor keeps the windmill turning at optimal speed, and varies the compressor speed depending on how much energy is available from the wind. So, light wind, slow compressor, heavy wind, fast compressor. Unload it through a small restriction when the system's full, so it can keep the windmill moving, but control its speed. You wouldn't need an oversized rotor to deal with the torque at high compressor outlet pressures since the CVT would adjust for that on the fly. For the tanks, get some pressure protection valves. These work sort of like check valves, but only open at so many PSI, like 60 or so, and with no pressure drop through the valve once open. Some are pre-set, others are adjustable. Set to above your expected working pressure (by that I mean whatever you set the outlet regulator to) and below your maximum tank pressure. Just above working pressure is probably best. Hook it up as compressor-> valve-> small tank-> valve-> large tank-> valve-> large tank->... Then, for the outlet of all the tanks, regular check valves to a common manifold and then the regulator. The result you'd have is a pressure buildup time proportional to the small tank up to the pressure where the protection valve opens, after that it'll be proportional to the total volume of first and second until second is full, then second plus third, and so on. But when using air your pressure fall would be proportional to the entire system's volume (or at least the volume of the tanks currently charged up) as the manifold would always pull from the highest-pressure tank first. Kind of complex, but would ensure that you have lots and lots of air available at highest pressure, and your system would be arbitrarily expandable simply by adding additional tanks at the end of your chain without hurting buildup time. And with a moderate wind and appropriately sized first tank, you'd have a good buildup time for when you actually need highest pressure. You could even eliminate the unloader scheme if you just stick a pressure pop off valve at the end of the chain. Or just keep adding bigger tanks until you can never fill the final one. (:
ASCII Diagram:
Compressor---->T1-->ppValve-->T2-->ppValve-->T3---->pop-off valve | | | or more tanks Check Check Check | | | v v v Regulator
I've seen that a fair amount as well. At least at the place I work now, the guys in the office still come out and run a machine from time to time (the company only promotes from within, and only from those who can perform every operation from the plasma-cutters to the mills to the powder-coating line). I'm still young, so I bemoan the state of manufacturing quite a bit- our average new employee is in and out in less than a week, because nobody wants to get dirty, or get a scratch on their soft, pretty skin anymore. Being a steel fabricator used to be a respectable job because people understood that it is skilled work- now it seems to be regarded as inferior to being a night-time stocker at Walmart, if some of our ex-employees are anything to go by.
Well, time will tell. I just keep hoarding tools and knowledge for the day when I'm going to really, truly, need them. Of course, if that day never comes- at least I've got an excellent hobby!
Not to mention the fact that the tools themselves tend to cost a lot less.
Glenn- I was looking at your site a while back.. Very Cool. How's it coming?
It's a matter of history. The "standard" -- for what was expected at the outlet in a residence -- changed over the years as power distribution got better.
Circa WW II line voltage was 110VAC. by the mid 50's, this had climbed to
115VAC. by the early 60's, 117VAC. By the late 60', 120V. The 'two hots' circuit was frequently called "220", even when the actual voltage was as high as 235 (2x117). "240" does seem to have mostly displaced the old name.Anyway, if somebody mentions a number in the 110-120 "or so" range, they're talking about the same thing. Ditto for anything in the 220-240 range. "208" is a "special" value. as is "277". Both having to do with specific arrangements of 'three-phase' circuits.
Your Honda is probably at claimed 125V because of *lousy* voltage regulation.
125V at 'no load', dropping to 120V (or lower) as the load increases.
What a surprise, not so much of a whiff of information about the topic at hand. I suggest that it's only fair when criticizing others, that you ought to be explaining how *you* handle supplying power to an off-grid workshop. Especially since you're cross-posting to a group that isn't familiar with your claims of being both an expert welder
*and* a "solar power consultant". Here, let me help you...George believes that after professing to have a couple of decades experience as a professional in the solar biz, that it makes infinite sense that he's hauled some 15 *tons* of fuel to his own place (without even counting wood for space heating), and must start a generator for any load over a few hundred Watts. He's also of the opinion that many of society's ills can be traced to a dependence on powered devices (as in: anything *he* doesn't have), and says he wants for nothing on one (1) kWhr per day. That's $3 per month electricity for you grid-connected folks. While most off-grinders who live in an area as sunny as George's quickly learn the benefits of solar water heating, George intends to wait for the concept to be proven before spending a few hundred bucks on it. And most important of all, he absolutely can't stand to hear about people who've done it better, which is just about everyone else. Which explains why he's found bitter fault with most of the regulars in the energy groups. Does that about cover the high points George? You're welcome.
Wayne
Major problem about learning from your mistakes [other than you may not live to learn] is that from the perspective of the decision makers these were excellent decisions resulting in wealth for themselves beyond the dreams of avarice.
From the perspective of everybody else: the first major mistake was letting these people get into and stay in their position of power; the second one is letting them keep any of the money they looted. [RICO anyone?] There is however there is a deeper problem. In a line originally used about politicians, "they are like cockroaches - its not what they carry off, its what they fall into and spoil."
Conventional national defense considerations by themselves should be enough to justify the retention of our basic manufacturing capability, cadre and infrastructure.
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