Workshop In An Alternate Homepower Environment

Page 13 of 13  


[[.. munch ..]]

I was there. You weren't. Your claim is bullsh*t.
Note: I didn't even _ask_ for that credit. They did it all by themselves.
Note: this was more than 30 years ago. And in a territory with a strong and active regulatory agency. And a state Attorney General that *really* hated that particular utility company -- they had previously *sued* him, requesting that the court grant order him to 'cease and desist harassment', no less.
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You must live in a tiny town if they sent out an Engineer for that...LOL
Did he have ditch digging caluses on his hands too?
Nice going. Never give up when you know you are right.
You would never get a rebate here for high voltage. power delivered is power billed.

wrote:
the
got
regulation.
increased,
end.
always rang

hitting
contact.
*OUCH*.
hospital,
and
about
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other
data-
phone,
the
high'
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John P Bengi wrote:

As a matter of fact would his metor not run less with some things like his fridge, vacuum, hair dryer, washing machine, dish washer, etc. What makes a power metor spin? If voltage goes up does the amp draw go down? I would give my left nut to have a little more voltage. Switch mode power supplies love a slightly higher voltage and often run cooler when they are run at max voltage.
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Energy meters spin by the combination of current and voltage creating torque on the non-ferrous disc as it tries to get out of the magnetic AC fluxes created at 90 degrees to each other.
On resistive devices and most devices the current and power goes up as the voltage increases. You bulb will be brighter etc..
On synchronous devices like AC motor compressors and furnace fans etc. the speed is locked to the power line frequency. 60Hzx 2 changes x 60 sec/min / #poles in the motor will pas the electromagnetic pole that creates the torque and you typically get 1800 RPM. This is fairly constant, which means the work that it puts out is constant also (constant workload) When you lower the voltage to the motor now is has to draw more current to do the same work and can eventually burn out by overheating from the high current.
BTW: If you have a disc or equivalent in your Electric Meter you can determine the load of your house going through the meter at any given time by clocking it with a stopwatch.
Look at you meter and observe the disc. You should notice a little black mark passing on the edge of the disc every revolution. Time a couple of these revolutions and mark the time (in seconds) down. I usually do about 60 seconds worth. There also may be fractional marks if your meter is moving really slow and don't have an hour to wait (exag)
Also notice on the front of the nameplate of your meter there is a "disc constant" noted as kH. This is the amount of energy (in watthours) that the meter has measured each revolution of the disc. It will probably read something like kH 7.2 or kH 12. This is the part that is tightly regulated for accuracy.
Now apply it to this formula:
revs x kH x time(secs) / 3600. sec per hour
This will give you your home load in watts (power). This technique can be useful to check the power of appliances to see where you hard earned energy dollars are going each month by shutting off all the breakers except one and looking for the energy pigs.
If you have a solid state kilowatthour meter on your house there will be a blinking LED or simulated disc in LCD but the same thing will apply. Look for a constant for the "equivalent disc revs" or LED kH.
Best of luck.

a
run
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Are you familiar with "Ohm's Law"?
If the _resistance_ is a fixed value, guess what happens to the current (amps) when the voltage goes up.
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Motor based appliances are not fixed resistances. As the voltage goes down the current goes up to achieve the same horsepower and the same RPM
wrote:

his
a
(amps)
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depends on how you qualify it. biggest town in the state. pop. circa 250K

*snicker*
It was _unexpected_. I hadn't asked for it.
It wasn't big bucks either. 30+ years ago, now, so I don't have any precise recollection of amount -- but I'm pretty sure it was under $20. An apartment, in summertime -- without A/C -- and with a gas stove, doesn't use a lot of power.
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On Fri, 17 Jun 2005 17:42:09 -0700, "Ulysses"

http://www.xantrex.com/web/id/114/p/1/pt/5/product.asp
Wayne
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Ya know, you could probably make this work with a little creativity. Find a compressor that's happy running at any speed between near-zero and max, (good luck) then rig up a speed governor and a CVT (variable pulleys would probably be the most practical). Arrange it so that the governor keeps the windmill turning at optimal speed, and varies the compressor speed depending on how much energy is available from the wind. So, light wind, slow compressor, heavy wind, fast compressor. Unload it through a small restriction when the system's full, so it can keep the windmill moving, but control its speed. You wouldn't need an oversized rotor to deal with the torque at high compressor outlet pressures since the CVT would adjust for that on the fly. For the tanks, get some pressure protection valves. These work sort of like check valves, but only open at so many PSI, like 60 or so, and with no pressure drop through the valve once open. Some are pre-set, others are adjustable. Set to above your expected working pressure (by that I mean whatever you set the outlet regulator to) and below your maximum tank pressure. Just above working pressure is probably best. Hook it up as compressor-> valve-> small tank-> valve-> large tank-> valve-> large tank->... Then, for the outlet of all the tanks, regular check valves to a common manifold and then the regulator. The result you'd have is a pressure buildup time proportional to the small tank up to the pressure where the protection valve opens, after that it'll be proportional to the total volume of first and second until second is full, then second plus third, and so on. But when using air your pressure fall would be proportional to the entire system's volume (or at least the volume of the tanks currently charged up) as the manifold would always pull from the highest-pressure tank first. Kind of complex, but would ensure that you have lots and lots of air available at highest pressure, and your system would be arbitrarily expandable simply by adding additional tanks at the end of your chain without hurting buildup time. And with a moderate wind and appropriately sized first tank, you'd have a good buildup time for when you actually need highest pressure. You could even eliminate the unloader scheme if you just stick a pressure pop off valve at the end of the chain. Or just keep adding bigger tanks until you can never fill the final one. (:
ASCII Diagram:
Compressor---->T1-->ppValve-->T2-->ppValve-->T3---->pop-off valve | | | or more tanks Check Check Check | | | v v v Regulator<------------------------------------- | v Out
Probably couldn't run a sandblaster on it, but an impact, grinder, nailer, or drill would be doable. Could probably even handle the fridge idea someone mentioned earlier without trouble. And if you outpace the system on occasion you would be able to augment it with an engine or electric compressor that runs when you use a whole lot of air and let the windmill keep the system topped off otherwise.
--
B.B. --I am not a goat! thegoat4 at airmail dot net
http://web2.airmail.net/thegoat4 /
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[totally snipped]
Discussion has drifted to using compressed air as energy-storage medium.
A company I used to work at processed wire, and powered the take-up reel with a rotary-vane air-motor, used as a constant-torque drive. Its air consumption was horrendous for the small amount of work it did.
Another company used an old steam-powered fixed-crane to lift small barges in and out of the water. Its boiler was long gone, so a 1000 CFM diesel air compressor powered it. Sometimes barely...
Are there available air motors efficient enough to make this storage scheme practical?
Tom Willmon near Mountainair, (mid) New Mexico, USA
Net-Tamer V 1.12.0 - Registered
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On Mon, 20 Jun 2005 14:22:04 +0000 (UTC), snipped-for-privacy@cybermesa.net wrote:

Not that I know of. Like you I can think of examples that prove the inefficiency - like a standard corded 3/8 drill that needs but a few hundred Watts of electricity, while its air-powered cousin keeps a 1500 Watt compressor pretty busy. Just the same, I can imagine a Bowjon type windmill/compressor generating compressed air for home shop use. It wouldn't be efficient, but the losses wouldn't matter if the shop's demands were low, and if the windmill, pump, tank and labor were all cheap. It's not something I'd bother with though, and even for somebody with lots of time on their hands, I'd expect wind-driven shop air to come *after* solar-heated water and wind-powered battery charging.
Wayne
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You might try looking at what the Amish do to get around the problems. I remember reading somewhere about a group of Amish woodworkers who have converted their electric motors to hydraulics (of course you have to be able to get the hydraulic pressure) but they probably have a few good tricks.
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