WORKING TIPS FOR NEW WOODWORKERS 1

[John, in MN]

They work great for driving lag bolts.

[B a r r y B u r k e J r .]

The why would you write the following?

"I have put together a list of medium-caliber power tools that would make a great first inventory of woodworkers tools. Each of these tools has been tested and inspected by me. I bought all of the following tools for my eldest grandson for his Christmas present, so you can see that I am not suggesting these items out of my butt."

A few years ago there was a troll thread on another newsgroup where a poster claimed to HAVE A BROKEN CAPS LOCK KEY, SO HE ALWAYS HAD TO TYPE IN CAPS. Several regulars in the group offered to send the guy a free keyboard, and he always replied with excuses like he couldn't get mail, he had a proprietary connector, the dog chased the mailman away, etc... He also played the sympathy card once the group chased him out from under the troll bridge, just as you seem to be doing.

We've all been newbies, so many of us really do try to help them. Many of us also blow the BS horn when something that dosen't compute when added to our own experiences to help actual newbies not have to make the same mistakes we've made.

Regardless of whether you are a troll, spammer, or simply a helpful, well-meaning poster, I'm bored of this whole thing. I'll be on my way now. Only you know which one you really are. Feel free to demonstrate to us which category you fit into in future threads.

Barry

[B a r r y B u r k e J r .]

I can't explain it, but sometimes I actually enjoy responding to a troll for a while. Today is obviously one of those days!

Barry

[nospam]

ackshooly, I have heard (tho not tried it out myself) that those things can eliminate camout when driving phillips head screws. I have a dedicated screwdriver, more like the air tool described in the OP's OP.

Bridger

[dave]

You might just be right. Xnews, munged addy, overlooking the last line of my reply about providing a sig line that works. And he pushed all the right buttons.... Sounds a lot like an inside job. Dave in Fairfax

[Charlie Self]

Expert Woodworker shouts:

You might have been less aggressively attacked if your first note was more reasoned. You presented your under $500 list as the be-all and end-all of a start-up shop, not as an approval of items picked by your grandson. But you provided NO such explanation, nor did you explain he had access to your measuring and layout tools, or your compressors.

You attacked members of the group first, not by name, but by group, stating that the "self appointed experts" were jerks who wanted everyone to buy only top of the line tools. Yet you resent being taken to task for a relatively goofy list of tools for a beginner--it is actually a better list for someone expert enough to allow for, and get around, the failings of such cheap tools, and even then, it's not much good.

You continue to anoint yourself as an Expert Woodworker, but other than tirades about how you have been attacked, you provide no information about your work, whether as a teacher or a woodworker, hobbyist or pro. We not only don't know WHO you are, we don't know WHAT you are simply because you refuse to tell us even the basics.

Yet you whine on about being attacked aggressively, as you snarl at those who question your "expert" judgment.

Charlie Self

"Man is a reasoning rather than a reasonable animal." Alexander Hamilton

[Expert Woodworker]

[e-mail] (Charlie Self) wrote

No, I never did that. It is just a handle. I already apologized for ruffling your feathers. Like I said, I am not an efficient communicator.

[John]

As a newbie woodworker, I appreciate any info that someone might give about tools. It really is up to the individual looking at that information to question it's validity. Sometimes you must compromise on tools to start working while you save up for the next purchase you really drool over.

I, myself, have some not so fantastic tools from Canadian tire, but they help me get the job done, albeit a little slower and with a little more care. Judge the intentions of the man and not the content. It is unfair to critisize this individual with such callousness when he is cleary trying to help some people get started in this hobby. After almost breaking the bank just to get a few tools for my own home shop, I can understand the post. Not everyone can afford to go out and spend a few thousand dollars to get the good stuff right away. Cheap tools might not cut as well or last as long or may be noisier, but knowing this and taking more precautions on a new project can overcome some of these limitations.

Buyer beware is the only thing you need to add to this post. As most of us are adults this should be an apparent rule. Always search out more information before making a purchase.

Thats my rant.

Happy holidays to everyone in the group

John Van Schaik

[Dan]

On Sat 20 Dec 2003 10:52:02a, "Swingman" wrote in news:huadnT6eI [e-mail]:

Yeah, I was wandering through this thread and it came to me: "If you do just a little research first, and really sit down and THINK about the best way to troll a group you can really come up with a winner."

Dan

[Dave Fleming]

Here are the headers of our ****new expert woodworker****

Please note line 6. Tales of a Boatbuilder Apprentice

[Expert Woodworker]

"John" wrote in news:7R%Eb.767067$9l5.294022@pd7tw2no:

Thank you, John. Enjoy your holidays too.

[Expert Woodworker]

Dan wrote in news:Xns945779D4AE7EFs2scharternet@216.168.3.44:

Say what you will. I was only trying to be helpful to beginners on a budget based on a recent purchase that I was unexpectedly satisfied with.

[Dave Balderstone]

I'm not going to judge your experience, but as a relative newbie I'll make the following comments:

-- Buying cheap, inferior stuff is indeed a big mistake. I've learned that first-hand. That's why I've been replacing the crap I bought in the price range you suggest with high-midrange tools, like a Bosch router and a Milwaukee circ saw. The $300 CAD Skil table saw is the next to go. As others have said, a skilled woodworker can use cheap tools because they have the experience to get around the severe limitations of the tools. That's not me. I wouldn't recommend any of the tools on your list to a newbie because I've worked with that quality of tool *as a newbie* and the experience is frustrating. (Okay, the $6.49 glue gun is probably a decent buy)

-- Coming into this community with an abrasive post (your third paragraph) is guaranteed to raise the hackle of people who are indeed skilled craftsmen who willing offer their knowledge and experience to folks like me. I know what I'm talking about here... I think my first or second post was an embarassing flame of Keith Bohn for which I was taken to task in a private email by another senior member. I like to think I learned that lesson.

-- This is an incredible community of people. Like any community, we have a wide range of personalities. Stick around a while, take the occasional chill pill, and share some of your 40 years experience with us.

djb

[Mark & Juanita]

... snip of low-end tool selection

Guess it depends upon the barrel you're looking in.

as a boat anchor

David,

Is that you playing with us? Or UA100? If so, good troll!

[Larry Bud]

But you haven't answered the questions posed to you, as to why you recommend certain items.

Let's see some pics.

[Larry Bud]

When you continue to dodge and ignore the questions posed to you, and in fact, get OFFENDED that someone dare question the "expert woodworker", what do you expect? Answer the legitimate questions posed.

[Larry Bud]

Well, if you read between the line, his email address does say "PRO SPAM"!!!

[Mark & Juanita]

... snip

A few years ago, Aviation Week magazine re-ran their "man behind the desk" ad. There is a dour looking old gentleman in suit and tie sitting behind a desk, the caption goes (from memory):

"I don't know you, I don't know your company, I don't know what you stand for, I don't know your reputation. Now, what was it you wanted to sell me?"

[jerry_tig2003]

was not flat and the parallel guide mounting prone to yield under the lightest of efforts. This makes this saw a rather dangerous tool. You may want to check on that, because you do not want your son to be injured.

[Silvan]

He's not telling the truth, I guaran-damn-tee. Spamming has only been around for a little over 10 years now, so there's no way he has over 40 years of experience in his profession.

Just so newbies don't get sucked in by the spam, here are some real thoughts on that subject from a bona fide low budget woodworker...

A complete wood shop for under $500?

No, I can't do it. I sat down to do a bit of figuring, and the best reasonably complete shop I could come up with was $750. That was a small table saw, a good corded hand drill, a workbench, vises, sharpening gear, chisels, two inexpensive used hand planes, rulers/gauges/squares, clamps, basic drill bits, basic hammer/screwdriver/utility knife, economy backsaw, flush cut saw, cheap circular saw, and a couple of decent Freud blades for the power saws.

It notably did not include a router, router table, router bits, sander, drill press, bandsaw or even a shop vac, so it wasn't even as complete as my own little shop.

It's nuts to think you have to start with all of that though. I started with a backsaw, a miter box, a cheap jigsaw, a cheap combination square, a hammer, a Craftman screwdriver set and an electric drill. Most of these were wedding gifts. The only tools I remember going out to purchase were the backsaw/miter box kit and a cheap set of B&D countersink bits.

Among other things, the plant stand and house shaped curio box on my web site were fashioned with nothing more than those simple tools. Fashioned in my *kitchen* I might add. So was my tool cabinet. I still have and use all of these things to this day.

When starting out, one trick is to buy as much as you can pre-cut to size. Avoid complex joinery and complex clamping by using screws and nails. Exploit every source of free, salvage wood from pallets to trash piles. Don't let all these folks on here with $15,000 tool collections and 1,000 sq. ft. shops fool you into thinking it takes a fortune to wreck some wood. They most likely didn't start out with all of that either, and they most likely didn't get all of that in one shot.

Begin at the beginning. Don't even try to buy a shop in a box. Buy tools as you appreciate the need for them. That way you get things you will use, instead of things somebody on the internet told you you'd need.