Woodworking Classes?

[alexy]

Pompano Beach June 2-3

[Corner of My Mind]

Interesting paradox. A tool that is used most often but is not needed.

The question is how does a newbie spot a quality tool if he doesn't know what to look for? Is there a brand that is known to only product quality tools? Just look for the most expensive of that tool available?

[SWDeveloper]

I agree with the table saw. I probably use it more than any other power tool in the shop. But, you can do woodworking for a lifetime and not use a table saw at all. I have two routers and these are useful and very versatile tools also. Quality hand tools are a good investment as they can last a liftetime and many still prove useful after you buy power tools.

[Corner of My Mind]

I like to write on the margins and highlight passages in books so I'll probably end of buying most books. Well, if I did get library books, I guess I could photocopy the interesting pages and then write on those.

Oh...I do that. I tend to research topics before doing them and one of the reasons I decided to subscribe to this newsgroup.

Is woodworking an expensive hobby in order to have a "complete" set of tools needed? What would be a good budget? $1000, $2000, $5000, other?

Yes. I imagine so. I just wanted some direction first from a teacher so that I don't make a mistake I can't fix (like losing a finger).

Sort of like learning a little first so that you can then ask an expert more insightful questions.

ok.

[SWDeveloper]

My math abilities complement both programming and woodworking.

[Corner of My Mind]

I must have been blind. It is right there on the top of the second page. I wonder if I didn't "detect" that it was there because of the background color being different for that class versus all the other ones.

Thanks.

[Markem]

General rule of thumb, you get what you pay for a $99 tablesaw versus a $500 as far a portables. A good fence though can make a cheap saw better. Google can be a good help, you can find reviews and opinions of the tool in question. When getting ready to purchase find a dealer who will let you touch and use it prior to investing your money in the tool.

Mark (sixoneeight) = 618

[Mortimer Schnerd, RN]

I wasn't referring to high school adult education. I was referring to the local community college holding its classes in several locations... on the main campus, at five satellite campuses, and at three local high schools (for night classes only). The place to start is the local community college.

These are college courses, not high school courses.... even if they're taught at one.

[alexy]

Yes, it does seem paradoxical, but my experience is the same as SWD's. I'll explain it this way: For 80% of the wood cutting I do (excluding hand-cut joinery), the table saw is the most convenient and does the best job. So it gets used the most. For the occasional crosscut of heavy/long/unwieldy boards, I will use the radial arm saw, but could do it on a table saw with outrigger supports. For resawing (cutting a board across its thickness dimension), I will use the bandsaw (the only way for wider boards, and the best way for all). For ripping thick or gnarly wood, for cuts in very small pieces of wood, or for curved cuts, I will use the bandsaw (safest for problem rips and cuts of small pieces). If I had to have only one stationary power saw, I'd choose the bandsaw, but I'd have to plane all the rip cuts I did to get as straight an edge as I would get off the table saw.

That's where a class will help, as long as you keep in mind that a class in a Woodcraft store might not recommend, e.g., tools you can get off ebay .

Sure. It's hard to go wrong with Veritas (direct from Lee Valley, and some lines, but not planes, distributed through other retail channels such as Woodcraft) or Lie-Nielsen (direct or retailers such as woodcraft). But in my opinion, they might be a little pricey--good value and worth the price if you will be using them, but maybe too much to spend before you see where your interests lie.

Of course, that works, but might not be the best approach. It's hard to go wrong with a Holtey (or Sauer & Steiner, or Marcou, or ...), but I don't think I would be able to appreciate its value.

course, don't go purely by price, or you will find yourself getting collectibles rather than users:

[Larry Blanchard]

Remember that Woodcraft is a franchise operation. Go to the store near you. Talk to them and find out what the class is like. If possible, talk to some customers who have taken the classes.

All I can tell you is that Bills comment certainly doesn't apply to the Woodcraft I work for. I went to his web page to find out where he was, but couldn't (Bill, I kept getting "This can be managed under Documents - Site Documents in the admin control panel." on the contact and about us pages).

Offhand, I can't think of a single class at our store that isn't hands on. In the turning, carving, scroll saw, woodburning, cabinet making, etc. classes the students each complete a project and take it home with them.

[Larry Blanchard]

o=A0only=A0product

that=A0tool=A0available?

You've just sparked another holy war :-).

For most woodworking tools, stay away from Sears. Even further away fr= om Harbor Freight. For hand tools Lie-Neilson and Veritas are hard to bea= t, but Sorby has some decent chisels. For power tools, Powermatic, General, a= nd Festool are hard to beat, But Porter-Cable, Jet, Bosch, and DeWalt aren= 't far behind. On the low end, Rikon does pretty well, at least we haven't ha= d many complaints, and Ridgid has some nice stuff as well. Triton makes a goo= d router and Incra has some nifty measuring tools.

Note that these are my opinions and I'm sure I've left out some toolmak= ers with good products. Probably some that we carry :-).

--=20 It's turtles, all the way down

[SWDeveloper]

Yes. Something like a SWMBO. ;-)

Brands are a good place to start. Where a tool is made says a lot when comparing woodworking tools. For example, a pair of shoes made in China is usually a good deal, but a tool made in China is questionable. I bought a grinder stand in China, but quality in a stand is usually not too important. There are tool reviews in magazines you can use as a guideline. If you get the chance to use tools of varying quality that will tell a lot. A cheap tool of low quality will perhaps cost more in the long run because you will have to replace it in the middle of a project--a very frustrating experience. Be careful what you buy at Harbor Frieght. Soon after woodworking for awhile you will soon realize the importance of sharpening tools and the skill to do it.

[mjd]

I caught the bug only a year or so ago. Up until then I'd only ever done the usual basic fix-ups/repairs around the house kind of thing. I started with some small projects and worked my way up until I made built-in bookcases for my study. In addition to several key woodworking books as well as this newsgroup, I found the woodworking magazines to be extremely helpful - WOOD, Popular Woodworking, Fine Woodworking, Shop Notes, etc. Get a subscription to one, then buy the others in between as needed. I have a stack over a foot thick already.

As others mentioned, the various TV woodworking shows (Woodworks, New Yankee Workshop) and your local library are good resources. Besides WW books, mine has several excellent tapes and DVDs on using the various power tools, finishing, etc. I'll second the opinion that this is really a solitary hobby - I doubt most experienced woodworkers would feel comfortable having someone hang around watching asking questions, and by the same token I think I'd find it awfully boring to be the one stuck sitting and just watching someone else.

My grandfather was a cabinet maker, but he died soon after I was born; I have his toolbox and a few of his old tools. My dad is not at all a handyman, so I never had the benefit of early mentoring. I can't really say what got me interested - it just sort of hit me one day. I think I like the fact that you are forced to take your time. It's a very relaxing hobby in that sense - the one thing you get to do that you don't have to rush through (well, maybe one of two things!)

[Bill in Detroit]

I suspect that it is store / teacher specific and that is why I suggested nosing around before signing up. The Pompano store has had a good recommendation. Two year ago I'd have given my local store much the same recommendation as a former in-law was teaching many of the classes then. We don't keep in touch much and he seems to have moved on. Pity ... he actually knew what he was doing and how to present it.

Bill

[Swingman]

Speak for yourself ... I thoroughly enjoy having someone in the shop, to either help, talk or work.

One of my one was also, among other things.

I'm convinced that if you look back far enough, it's in the genes.

[mjd]

my bad - should've stuck with the YMMV rule instead of projecting others opinions. So far, for me at least, shop time is a nice break for some solitude, and that way nobody sees the pondering, head- scratching, and mistakes. Certainly if the OP finds someone experienced who would enjoy showing him the ropes, that would be very valuable.

[Bill in Detroit]

Oddly enough, in tools that are not designed for hand use, weight is a good indicator of quality. Even there, it can serve as one useful indicator. A heavier tool generally has more and thicker metal ... it's made to last longer. There is a good chance that bearings and such were chosen to complement that innate sturdiness.

Lots and lots of folks will diss a Craftsman cast iron top table saw. But even more own and use them. It's not a cabinet saw by any means ... but they are available used for about $100-200 all the time. Some might take the tack that so many of them on the market is a clue that they are not worth much ... but Sears sold a TON of these saws - there are a jillion of them still in use. So they come on the market fairly often. People die, retire, lose interest or upgrade all the time. Rarely are they trying to sell their problem. The saws being sold are often decades old ... and still working just fine. I bought a model that was perhaps

15 years old for $150. I knocked some light rust off the top, aligned everything and popped on a new belt and I was in business. Eventually I plan to upgrade the rip fence ... but the saw is staying.

I use a number of Harbor Freight tools ... as do many on this list. I have a jointer, planer, 14" bandsaw + riser kit, router, 2 lathes and a dust collector from them. As a newbie, that put a lot of capacity in my shop for

[Morris Dovey]

Corner of My Mind wrote: | Morris Dovey wrote: || mistake called for a "board stretcher" or an "unsaw" for recovery. | | How much do those specialized tools cost and what is a good brand | to buy? :)

Board stretchers are generally made of a special alloy of Unobtanium, and if you need to ask the price, then you're disqualified forever as a purchaser.

I don't know much about unsaws - I think you' probably have to ask this question in news:alt.trinaries.sorcery.woodworking. I recall hearing a rumor about mounting a sawblade backward and chanting "wasnu" as the stock is fed, but there is some danger of kickback (not the stock - the unsaw.)

|| When I backed up and forced myself to learn to use hand tools || first, I began paying attention to the grain and how different || woods responded to being cut. The most-used tool in my shop today || is a CNC router - but for those jobs in which I have any emotional || investment, I still pull out my chisel roll, a plane (or three), || and a scraper to clean up things my eyes can't see but my || fingertips tell me aren't quite right yet. || || When I moved back from hand to power tools I discovered that I'd || developed a better sense of what would "work", higher standards and || expectations, and an inclination to consider what I'd experienced || using hand tools before I fired up the power tool. | | Another vote for hand tools. I'm noticing a pattern.

I like both powered and unpowered (and good software) tools. Using hand tools provides some useful preparation for using power tools well. The pattern /is/ there, but don't rush to a misinterpretation...

(I cringe at the idea of ripping 150 lineal feet of ipe, for example, with even the best of hand saws)

-- Morris Dovey DeSoto Solar DeSoto, Iowa USA

[Bill in Detroit]

And I certainly didn't want to warn him off every Woodcraft class ... just to let him know that he needs to be an alert consumer.

Thanks for the 'heads up' in re my web site. I hadn't noticed the "About Us" and the "Contact" links at the bottom of the shopping cart page. That will likely be fixed before you read this.

Drop back to

and click on the "Legal Matters" button at the top of the page for the information you were seeking. The Canton store is the closest to me.

For a router class, I had expected that there would be several routers, not just one with a half-dozen guys gathered around for a glimpse. I would not try to teach computers to six people if my computer was the only one in the room.

[nospambob]