Woodworking Adhesive Survey

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There is no "smoke screen", this is a student project and it clearly states in the opening of the survey that the results may be sharred with the manufacturer. There is no conspiracy.
snipped-for-privacy@milmac.com (Doug Miller) wrote in message (Franklin Univ Student) wrote:

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snipped-for-privacy@email.franklin.edu (Franklin Univ Student) wrote:

We have only your word for that. At best, it's a student project doing undisclosed double duty as a marketing survey; at worst, it's a marketing survey masquerading as a student project.

However, it does *not* state that you are an employee of Franklin International, an affiliation which you deliberately concealed.
You're in a hole, Vince. It's time to stop digging.

-- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)
For a copy of my TrollFilter for NewsProxy/Nfilter, send email to autoresponder at filterinfo-at-milmac-dot-com You must use your REAL email address to get a response.
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On 1 Jun 2004 13:33:51 -0700, snipped-for-privacy@email.franklin.edu (Franklin Univ Student) wrote:

You haven't been here long enough to understand Doug's personality.
Trust me...you should just move on! lol
Have a nice week...
Trent©
Dyslexics of the world ... UNTIE !
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Makes you wonder if they are deceitful in all their advertising. Ed
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There was deceitfullness in this survey period.
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Well, there IS a Franklin University, established 1902 (see www.franklin.edu)
That is NOT to say that this study was or was not done for the Franklin International folks, but I really doubt that this is fraud
John
On Thu, 27 May 2004 12:55:57 -0400, "Roger L"

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John wrote:

Let's see. If they say it's for a survey and they're using it for maketing that's procuring something of worth under false pretences. If it was sent from the company pretending to be the university, that's an obvious fraud. Can you have corporate identity theft? They pretended to be a student. If it was done by the company, that's another fraud, unless the corporate person is enrolled, not too likely. Looks like fraud to me. That's what it said in my letter to them, among other things.
Dave in Fairfax
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dave in fairfax wrote:

Did you _ask_ the guy what his relationship was with Franklin International before flying off the handle? He could be a Franklin employee taking graduate courses, he could be doing sponsored research, he could be the CEO's kid, Franklin International could be providing USENET access for the school through their servers, you just don't have enough information to be able to conclude that anything shady has occurred, all you know for sure is that he posted through a host that is registered to the company.
And if you think that this is a matter of any real importance, then quite frankly you need to get your priorities straight.
--
--John
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John makes some good arguments but...
If it quacks like a duck......... it is fraud.
I had tried to ask the student, but the email bounces. So much for confirming this part.... Strange that a graduate student cannot spell "campus".
Did John actually look at the survey? Does it look like graduate work? Looks more like a junior high type survey; if even that.
Not sure why Franklin International would need to allow Usenet access, as the claimed student simply posted it through Google news groups. Are you suggesting that a university did not have access to Google, so Franklin International offered them access to Google? Than again a University with four campuses and a graduate course in computer science, might not have access to Google, and a glue manufacture did. Than again it might be fraud.
Webster defines fraud as :
2 a : a person who is not what he or she pretends to be : IMPOSTOR; also : one who defrauds : CHEAT b : one that is not what it seems or is represented to be
Than again stranger things have happened. I am sure that if we are all wrong, than the original student will post his real name from a real Franklin University address, along with the people in his group. Better yet, we might even learn the professors name, that imposed such an assignment. Or better yet Franklin International can confirm the student, etc....
If not we can fall back on my opening statement.
Myself and others do think it is important... as we are all tired of deception and fraud, spewed daily by corporations.
Roger

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Roger L wrote:

The email bounces? Have you reported to the postmaster that someone is forging an address on his system?

What makes you think he was trying to spell "campus"? And did you email the address he gave or did you correct the spelling?

Everybody starts somewhere--could be an engineer taking his first marketing course.

If it didn't go through Franklin's mail server then what the Hell are you bitching at _them_ about? If it _did_ then how did the marketing department get authority to run a browser on the mail server? And why was that reported as the nntp-posting-host rather than Google?

Yep, priorities all messed up. If this was _really_ important to you you'd be a lawyer going after the Enrons rather than whining on USENET about some twit taking a survey.
If you can't take effective action that will result in change then forget about it and go on with life. If you can take effective action that will result in change then take it.

--
--John
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"J. Clarke" wrote:

I informed them of what had happened and that if, indeed it was done by them that it was inappropriate as well as a bad marketing idea. The first paragraph was designed to make them aware that it had happened either with or without their knowledge and that they needed to address the situation, both internally and publicly. I did not "fly off the handle". I reported the problem to the person in charge of marketing and to the VP in charge of adhesives.
Dave in Fairfax
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dave in fairfax wrote:

And then you came here and started making wild accusations.
--
--John
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"J. Clarke" wrote:

I ran whois on both places. They came back to different DNSs. The OP said he was from one and posted from the other. The OP admits that he failed to admit to his affiliation, that was the cause of my, as well as others, suspicion. I made no wild accusations. Since the OP has explained his affiliation, perhaps this thread can now end.
Dave in Fairfax
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I wish this thread would end. But, just for the record, Franklin International had nothing to do with setting up this survey. It was clearly stated that these results "may be shared with the manufacturer". There was no deception or conspiracy. Those of you that are serious woodworkers know that Franklin International is a privately held company with the highest ethical standards.
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I want to clear up any confusion about this survey.
Let me first reassure you that I am, in fact, a graduate student at Franklin University, and this survey is, in fact, for a class I am taking in the graduate school program. When the instructor for the course (Marketing Research and Theory, 601), handed out the assignment to prepare a survey, she recommended we do the survey on behalf of one of the companies for which the team members work to imitate a real-world situation. Because I am an employee at Franklin International, I suggested doing the survey on our HiPURformer product. The group agreed that this would be an interested project on which to do the survey. I worked on the survey on-line from home, I happened to posted the survey on the web from work. As you saw in the instructions, we were up front in indicating that the responses to the survey would be shared with the manufacturer of HiPURformer. (We didn't indicate who the manufacturer was only because we felt that would sway the results of the survey.)
I apologize for any confusion around this. It's important for me to tell you that, I, as all of us at Franklin, have the highest regard for woodworkers. It is for you that Franklin International works. The Masters program at Franklin University is aware of this research and supports it fully. Thank you.
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Thank you John for suggesting doing your homework before you assume the worst.
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Franklin Univ Student wrote:

I will NOT be taking the survey. Why? It sounded fishy from the get-go. Then all heck broke out and it got worse. I have read every reply including all of the OP's weak replies. It still does not wash with me. In my opinion it was a dumb thing for the OP to post into this fine group the way he did. Perhaps he will add all of this to his final report or product. Who here would ever trust any survey results done anywhere and posted by Franklin? Not me !
I use their products because they work for me. That will not change.
Hoyt W.
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I'm sure that the powers that be have been trembling at the thought that you might forgo using their products. They had visions of Chapter 13 dancing before their eyes until you assured them that you will continue to purchase their products. We can all sleep well tonight!
BTW, Hoyt, you never got back to me on your reasons for wanting me to email you. Did you REALLY have something personal to discuss? You ignored my previous request for clarification. If you keep ignoring my questions, I'll assume you have no good answers; especially when the question was asked only in response to your curiously odd post to "Bay Area Dave"...
dave
Hoyt Weathers wrote:

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Bay Area Dave wrote:
<snipity snip>

That was not intentional Dave. I forgot the topic. Please send me a personal message to my valid address above and we will go over that topic again - whatever it may have been. Your posted address does not appear to be valid. Otherwise I would have sent you a private msg.
Hoyt W.
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So, I seemed to miss out on something here.
What happened? :-)
UA100
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