Woods for Outdoors

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I was talking to someone who wants me to build them a table. I have no problems with that -- I've built tables before. But this one is supposed to be for outside, where it has to face the weather (including the harsh Canadian winters). I've never built outdoor furniture before, and am not familiar with what materails work well.
What woods are good for outdoors? How would I go about treating the wood? Also, what kind of glue should I be using?
This would be my first paid project, so I'm rather exited about it and want to do a good job.
John
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John Smith asks:

Cedar, redwood, cypress, walnut, locust: check any good reference tome on woods to add to the list of durable woods, including purpleheart and other exotics.
Don't treat it. Let it turn gray, or finish with exterior varnish (will probably need refinishing every 2-3-4 years, depending on exposure, quality of finish, quality of application).
Use polyurethane or resorcinol adhesive.
Design joints to drain, and don't fit them as tightly as you would for an indoor project.
Charlie Self
"Integrity without knowledge is weak and useless, and knowledge without integrity is dangerous and dreadful." Samuel Johnson
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Likewise with the exterior varnish (spar urethane is a popular choice), use an exterior grade waterproof glue.
As for woods, I see a lot of ads for Ipe (a type of ironwood I believe) decks, and though I've never used Ipe myself I would assume that to be good for decks it would have similar qualities as what you need.
david
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I want to think that I read that the "bog oak" or oak that has been buried in bogs is very good for this purpose. Maybe someone over there will know. I can't remember the name ya'll use for it.
On Thu, 18 Sep 2003 12:25:29 -0500, D K Woods

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snipped-for-privacy@aol.comnotforme says...

This is a little off-topic, but: I'd like to fill in some knot-holes in fascia boards on the front of my house to improve their appearance. Can I just clean up the holes, use Bondo (or wood putty, or something like that) and paint over the repairs? I'm worried about creating conditions that will encourage dry rot. N.b. The surfaces to be repaired are vertical, and exposed to the weather.
Cheers, Abe
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On Fri, 19 Sep 2003 05:51:19 +0000, Abe wrote:

I had a woodpecker peck some holes through the 1x6 cedar siding in the gable end of my old house. I think it was something like "Rock Hard", a powdered product you mix with water that I used to fill the holes. I worked great and took the house stain OK.
The woodpecker almost broke his pecker when he came back and tried to go through that stuff.
-Doug
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snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com says...

Doug -- thanks. I'll see if I can find some "Rock Hard". N.b. I love woodpeckers, but the little buggers can certainly be troublesome.
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On Fri, 19 Sep 2003 17:47:30 +0000, Abe wrote:

I had one that insisted one doing machine gun practice on the downspout outside my bedroom window at daybreak every day. Grrrrrr
-Doug
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The product you are thinking of may be "Durham's Water Putty" IIRC it says something about drying rock hard on the label.
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Larry Wasserman Baltimore, Maryland
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On Thu, 18 Sep 2003 10:04:34 -0400, "John Smith"

Redwood, Cypress, White oak, Cedar, Teak, pressure treated pine (okay, but not for food stuff or children). Outdoor primer/paint protects wood very well. I use CWF for clear-coating and this darkens the wood a little. Use traditional joinery with waterproof wood glues.
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I'm surprised to see walnut and white oak on those lists. They don't last outdoors in England. Oak does, but only for big pieces (timber framed houses) and it looks pretty scabby close up.
I'd add larch too.
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On Thu, 18 Sep 2003 16:59:43 +0100, Andy Dingley

I never heard walnut is a good outdoor wood (maybe it is I don't know). There's a big difference between white oak and other kinds of oak. Any wood used for boatbuilding is a good choice.
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wrote:

(okay,
Walnut was widely used for sills because insects and rot don't particularly care for it. Of course that was when you harvested your own wood and had the ability to use the right wood for the right job. Now with economic constraints, it doesn't really make sense.
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Frank Nakashima notes:

Uh, well...it's been some time since I bought walnut, but the last time around, I almost had my tailgate dragging on an 8' Dodge pick up full of green log run walnut at 75 cents a bf.
As I said, I used some of it for siding and battens, but that REALLY was cull stock.
Charlie Self
"Integrity without knowledge is weak and useless, and knowledge without integrity is dangerous and dreadful." Samuel Johnson
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your
time around,

log run

And I went to the store for a bag of apples and came back with a sack of oranges. Since nobody's going to use green log run walnut for sills, it sounds like you did as well. IOW, try comparing the cost of 6/4 KD walnut with treated lumber.
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Frank Nakashima writes:

For pete's sake. I really DO have sense enough to dry the shit before I use it for anything important! That lumber has built numerous projects: log run turns out a reasonable amount of FAS lumber (about 50% in this case), with culls useful for other things, like siding and birdhouses and whatnot.
IMO, buying fully dried hardwood is about like burning money. A little patience and some stickers are required, but you can easily reduce your wood costs by 65% when you start with green lumber. Too, particularly in the case walnut, most kilns steam the stuff, creating a mushy brown look. Air dried is far more attractive.
Point being, really, if you think ahead a bit, paying whatever FAS 6/4 walnut costs need not be all that painful. Probably roughly $1.90 a board foot.
Charlie Self
"Patriotism is not short, frenzied outbursts of emotion, but the tranquil and steady dedication of a lifetime. " Adlai E. Stevenson
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of
it
I use it

run turns

culls
patience
costs by

walnut,
far more

walnut
foot.
tranquil and

If you'll recall, we were talking about using it as sills for houses. Most home builders aren't going to buy a bunch of green walnut, sticker it, air dry it, mill it, etc. If they REALLY wanted to use walnut, they would buy it already dried and milled. That's why I said it isn't economically feasible to use walnut for sills. Not to mention the fact that even at 1.90 bf, (excluding all the labor to mill, dry etc.) treated lumber is still cheaper.
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On 18 Sep 2003 18:05:56 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@aol.comnotforme (Charlie Self) wrote:

Talking of walnut, here's a recent post from alt.crafts.blacksmithing. Take a look at the pictures.
On Tue, 16 Sep 2003 19:51:28 -0700, Grant Erwin
I finished my version of the "chunk of wood" anvil stand today. I learned quite a lot. This anvil stand started with a walnut stump. The wood is roughly 12x12x22" and is bound on both top and bottom with 2x" steel flat bar. Since the wood is green, I sealed it to slow the drying process hoping to keep it from cracking. Of course, with the ends bound in steel (driven on tightly, the steel had to stretch 1/16" to fit on) I'm hoping it won't crack anyway.
The anvil isn't fastened down to the top - it's just secured from moving. I can "walk" the anvil/stand around my shop - portability is a must in my small shop - without the anvil coming loose, but if I need to put them in a truck and drive away I can just lift the anvil off and move them separately.
The ends of the block aren't quite flat. Either is my floor, so I'll be kicking a wedge under a corner. The anvil doesn't quite sit flat on the top but a piece of thin aluminum sheet metal as a shim works very well. With the shim and wedge it sits dead solid.
I used bullseye shellac. I'm sure the hot scale will tear it up but I felt I had to do something.
Next step is to get all the blue paint off the anvil, then start on the forge.
Pix:
http://www.tinyisland.com/images/anvilstand.jpg
http://www.tinyisland.com/images/anviliron.jpg
Grant Erwin Kirkland, Washington
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Andy Dingley responds:

White oaks only. Red oak rots like a demon. I had a white oak picnic table that was over 20 years old when I tossed the thing because it was murder to move when mowing the grass (is there a bigger waste of resources anywhere than lawns?).
Walnut is moderately durable, at least that found in the eastern U.S. I've made some of the boards and battens on my shop of log run walnut. You can't tell now, after somethinng like 4 years, but it looked kind of odd the first 3 seasons.
Charlie Self
"Integrity without knowledge is weak and useless, and knowledge without integrity is dangerous and dreadful." Samuel Johnson
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On 18 Sep 2003 16:55:08 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@aol.comnotforme (Charlie Self) wrote:

Maybe your cold winters kill the bugs ? Our UK winters are mild, and it's difficult even to air-dry walnut, because it keeps attracting borers even when dried.
We don't have red oak in the UK. A very few ornamental trees, and some imported timber. Our white oak species (Q. petraea and Q. robur) aren't quite the same as your Q. alba.
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