Woodcraft Magazine sleazy marketing

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Bob said:

Looks like I touched a couple of nerves. That's not always a bad thing.
I have no idea of AJ's ethical standards, nor do I question them. It is, however, very common for the management of a publisher, TV network, radio network, newspaper, to all work under the same banner or corporate umbrella.
I'm sure you are well aware of NBC, CNBC MSNBC, USA, are all part of one conglomerate, just like Time-Life and Reader Digest have many publications under the same corporate banner.
AJ has every right to defend what his company did or did not do in the case of unwanted subscriptions. I have no reason not to believe what he said. I do, however, think he went a bit overboard to put the white hat on the guys at Woodworker's Journal and the books/invoice they sent out.
I'm well aware of the law, but it is still sleazy marketing. How many times have you seen postings here the a woodworker want to buy a tool buy has to ask permission from his wife? Too many, IMO. But look at this scenario. Using a fictitious name, let's say Charlie subscribes to Woodworker"s Journal. They send him a free book unsolicited. AJ thinks he is not interested and discards the material that came with it. Perfectly legal. A month later, WJ sends Charlie a bill for the book again. This time it is in the mail along with the electric bill and the liquor store bill. Charlie's wife brings in the mail and puts it away. A few days later she decide to pay the bills and just grabs the book bill, figuring her husband ordered it, and just pays it. Far fetched? No, book and record company hustlers depends on this sort of thing to eke out a living. Columbia Records will track you down and send you offers for years, even if you change addresses four states away.
It is strictly my own opinion (and a not humble one at all) that he concentrate on his own business when he is posting about it in a public forum and not try to justify what others do. I'd welcome a response from WJ on the matter and they have every right to defend and explain themselves when they are taken to task publicly. . If AJ wants to reply as an uninterested party, he can do that, but once he posts under the Woodcraft Magazine corporate banner he should stick with that only. If I was the CEO of Woodcraft, I'd be pissed that he overstepped his bounds bringing others into the discussion, but that is just me..
--
Ed
http://pages.cthome.net/edhome /



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You may be right.
A.J.
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A.J. Hamler - I'll disagree with you about the Woodworker's Journal scam because the card that you can send back in only gives you 2 of the 3 choices that are in the letter. Unless you read the last paragraph of the letter, your options are to pay $9 for a book you didn't order OR send it back. There is no check box item for "Thanks, I'm keeping it at no charge & don't want to participate." Just FYI, but the whole thing seems sleazy to me. I have second thoughts about even subscribing to the magazine now. I get enough junk mail & email. I don't need more 'free' offers to wade through.
Jim
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Jim ...
<< I'll disagree with you about the Woodworker's Journal scam because the card that you can send back in only gives you 2 of the 3 choices that are in the letter. Unless you read the last paragraph of the letter, your options are to pay $9 for a book you didn't order OR send it back. There is no check box item for "Thanks, I'm keeping it at no charge & don't want to participate." >>
The reason there is no third choice printed on the card is that there doesn't need to be. The law says you may keep the book (or any unsolicited merchandise a company might send you) as a "gift" and that's the end of it. The company wants to know if you'll be ordering more books or you want to keep the one they sent you but, for some reason known only to you, you don't feel right about not paying for it. In each of those cases you would be sending them money so they need you send in the card in order for them to set up your account. In the event that you don't plan to pay for the book, the company has no need for a paperwork trail so they just leave that choice out of the equasion. (I guess it pays to read the last paragraph of the letter that comes with stuff you didn't order.) Think of it this way: if a telemarketer calls you during dinner trying to sell you some crap you don't want, do feel the need to write the company a letter saying "thanks but no thanks?" For me, hanging up on them is all the response they require.
Lee
--
To e-mail, replace "bucketofspam" with "dleegordon"



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In other words, just toss it out.
All companies do this, not just magazines. If you don't want the offer, toss it out. What could be easier? When you pick up the newspaper, there are hundreds of ads in it, each of which is doing exactly the same thing that a magazine or book solicitation does: get your business. Do you feel a need to contact every advertiser in your newspaper and tell them no? I doubt it. You just toss it out. Same thing. Like Lee said, hang up on them, keep it, or toss it out -- that's the end of it.
Look, you don't need a reason not to do business with someone or some company or some publisher. No reason at all other than you just don't wanna. There's nothing wrong with that. It doesn't hurt our feelings, either. You don't want our magazine? Fine, we understand that it just doesn't fit your needs. No hard feelings, keep the freebie, love-ya-never-change.
You don't want the lawn service advertised in this morning's newspaper? Well, don't call them. You don't like Woodworker's Journal and you don't want to subscribe? OK, but don't blame their book club offer you didn't bother to read the last paragraph of as your reason for never looking at the magazine again. You didn't care for the free issue of Woodcraft Magazine we sent you? Ditto. Don't subscribe. But don't use that as a lame excuse to never order from the catalog. If you don't like what's in the catalog, then just don't buy anything from it. Why the need to make up some reason and claim sleaze 'n' scam when it's just not there?
But please, don't accuse a magazine -- mine, or anyone else's -- of sending invoices out willy-nilly to folks who didn't actively request the magazine unless you know what you're talking about.
A.J.
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But I did get a couple of invoices from WJ for their stinkin' unsolicited book. But your' right, they were not sent willy-nilly, they know exactly what they are doing.
--
Ed
http://pages.cthome.net/edhome/



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wrote in message

So, you get an invoice for that drill gage the Handyman Club sent?
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A.J. Hamler wrote:

free
it
Supply
an
for
different
to
the
club
you
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I completely disagree with teh Woodworker's Journal information. I got the book in the mail. I didn't want to join their club so I assumed it was free. Several weeks later, I received an invoice wanting $9 for the book or the book back. I went back and looked through the info they had originally sent and it never stated the book was free - there was a free coin or something. They wanted me to review the book and either pay for it or return it - I figure the value of time for looking through their book and packing it for them is worth more than the book.
I was very upset to get this letter. I have considered sending a letter butI still haven't responded.
If I receive another invoice or anything else from them wanting money, I'll complain to the state's attorney general's office and/or postal inspectors. I'm suprised no one has done it already. If they do something stupid like having a collector call, they deal with an attorney.
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They do not point out the last option. Do nothing and keep the book.
You have no obligation to return it and the law supports this fact.
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Actually, in the letter(s) I got, that option was spelled out. In a different, later, section, but spelled out. Perhaps a different letter went to California residents, as our laws may differ here.
The intent was, I believe, as has been expressed in someone else's earlier post, to have folks believe that they had to 'do something', even though they had not initiated the transaction.
And that, I believe, is deceptive. Sleazy.
The 'red oak' coin went into my golf bag, possibly to be used as a ball marker, if I decide not to use the Canadian Loonie that's also in the collection...
Patriarch
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I recall hte first letter has something like that. l The second bill did not that I noticed. They tried to make you feel bad for not returning it. I sent the invoice back with a note stating that if they are dumb enough to send it to me, I'm smart enough to keep it.

Hey, don't call the Canadians Loonie, they are our friends ;)
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It takes a long time to stop a magazine subscription--it's been that way for years despite computerized operations. I write "Cancel" on the invoice and mail it back--that has always worked for me. I don't ever order a "trial" copy of a magazine. After a subscription runs out I get begging letters for 2 or 3 years to re-subscribe, so I havn't ordered any magazines for over 10 years. I dislike junk mail.
On Mon, 02 May 2005 23:50:54 GMT, "good ol' Bob"

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Any print media pretty much makes more money on advertising than on selling the magazine itself. Magazines will sometimes keep on sending out issues so they count as circulation to boost advertising rates.
I work for a major newspaper and the amount we charge for the paper is only a fraction more than what it costs for just the newsprint in each paper. Advertising is what pays the bills for a newspaper. How many people would pay $2 a day or more for a newspaper?
Brian Elfert
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What happened to good ol' Bob in all of this?
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