Wood movement question

[Greg Guarino]

I don't know if I'll actually build this design. In fact, even if I work up the gumption to try it - there would be many challenges for someone at my level - I'm sure the design will undergo many changes before it's built.

For right now I'm curious about the center section that lifts out. If it's made of solid wood (lets say oak), how much play would I need to allow around the perimeter? It would probably be 6" to 8" wide. Would a sixteenth be adequate?

Next, is this simply a stupid idea? Specifically, is the center piece likely to warp over time and not sit flat? I can't see using ply for this, as I like the decorative square holes, which would also be used to remove the cover.

As always, try to be gentle. :)

[Leon]

Cool and I would not be too concerned with the lift out section, you are using a dark wood to hide the loose fit shadow that would be created. The wider that trim around the lid the less noticeable the gaps will be.

[Sonny]

What might the 3 holes, along the center line, be for? Option: discard th ose 3 holes for... see below.

Another option? Why not make the center section a 4 piece unit, triangles converging at the center point, i.e., following the design of the perimeter ? If this project is going to be an advancement of skills learned, why be so plain with the center section?

Another option? Since the center section is lined with a contrast trim, us e a ply substrate and practice your veneer application.

If either option fails, you haven't lost much lumber, only time and/or lear ning from errors/mistakes.

Never.

You're in luck. Thursdays are the gentle days.

This is a good project proposal for making anyone think of different option s.... but be careful with the Project Management:

Sonny

[Greg Guarino]

Two functions: They are "finger-holes" to allow you to remove the cover. And more importantly :) they are decoration.

[John McCoy]

Greg Guarino wrote in news:mef8d0$mg4$1@dont- email.me:

You can find wood movement calculators on the web to give you answers for pretty much any size and wood you want.

Off the top of my head, tho, I think oak shrinks about 1/8 per foot of width for a normal indoor humidity range. So a 1/16 on either side should be ample for a 6" panel.

John

[dadiOH]

More than, IMO. In fact, if I were doing it, I'd make it gently snug; might slightly bevel the insert edges, though, ala T&T flooring.

If it starts flat and is well finished everywhere, it isn't likely to warp. If yu wanted to be super safe, Sonny's veneer suggestion would be the way to go.

NP but why do you want the center removeable? Are you thinking of a storage area under it?

[Greg Guarino]

Yes, For TV remotes, coasters, a few pens for the crossword puzzle etc. It won't be the most practical way to accomplish that, and I haven't definitely decided to do it, but I like that it would be a little odd.

[Swingman]

Every woodworker interested in determining wood movement for planning and design purposes needs to keep a copy of the following in the shop:

As you will read, not only is the species of importance when selecting woods based on their reaction to moisture/seasonal changes, but also the cut off the log (quarter sawn, flat sawn, etc).

As a general rule, and for most species, if you want to reduce expansion and contraction across your board's face, try to select quarter or rift sawn stock for those areas/components which may be subject to dimensional instability due to moisture/seasonal changes.

[John Grossbohlin]

Perhaps quarter sawn would be useful here... generally more stable. If done carefully it could be sawn apart to make the holes and then glued back together such that the glue lines disappear. This would require carefully lining the growth rings up parallel with the long edges and then jointing the edges to get the growth rings to line up like the saw cut was never made. Not too difficult to pull off... just requires some thought and care.

[Leon]

Keep in mind what looks good on paper does not always work well in daily use. Things pile up on tables and you will have to clear the table to lift the lid. You might want to consider a fancy top that dies not open and add a drawer for the remotes.

[DerbyDad03]

I was going to say the same thing in a slightly different manner: Form does not follow function in this instance. In addition, things *will* fall thro ugh the holes, dust and crap will end up on top of that remote, etc. The pi cture shows pens inside, but it would be tough to use the top as a writing surface.

Pretty, but not necessarily practical. Of course, it really all depends on it's intended purpose.

[Greg Guarino]

Yup, I've already thought of some of that stuff.

I'm not worried about things falling into the holes. They would be 1" square. I have no pets or small children. Even a drinking glass would span that hole without tilting, especially sitting on one of the coasters that people will use under penalty of hanging by their thumbs in the yard.

And these would be end tables that would sit a little lower than the arms of the couch. They would not be for writing.

But yes, stuff would pile up on top. That much I'm certain of. Stuff piles up on top of everything in my um, *compact* house. But occasionally when people come over and we pretend that the house is always as neat as it is on such evenings, people could ooh and aah at the clever, pretty design. :)

Thanks for the advice. This is merely the tenth or so iteration of what will doubtless become twenty or thirty before anything is built. Who knows what shape it might take.

[John McCoy]

DerbyDad03 wrote in news: [e-mail]:

Yeah, let's not fault the guy for trying to be creative. Sometimes you have to work thru the "didn't quite work out like I intended" a few times to get a design that both looks good and works good, and you have to try the ideas that don't immediately look practical before you see how to improve them.

For instance, if stuff falling thru the holes becomes an issue, you might just close them off on the bottom (add a thin layer of wood or something) - you'd keep the decorative aspect, and they'd still work as a way to grasp the lid.

Or perhaps instead of a closed box under the table top it's an open shelf, which would make it easier to clean (at the risk of stuff falling off, of course).

I think the aesthetics of the holes in the center matching the 4 square tenons of the legs, and the square elements in the lower stretchers, has a lot to be said for it.

John

[DerbyDad03]

Just keep in mind that what looks "neat" to you after a cleaning blitz is all relative. :-)

If you reduce the clutter by 90%, it looks great to you. However, your unknowing guests see the remaining 10% as 100%. No, showing them "before and after" pictures is not a good idea. ;-)

[dadiOH]

Good thought, no need to clear off the top to get at it. Especially if it were a sliding shelf...not talkng about drawer slides, just a couple of pieces on the inside along two sides to contain the shelf.

dadiOH