Wood Movement: Is this a typo?

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I used PC biscuits and PC cutter and found and had the same problem. It's back in the box with just a little dust on it.
I've heard these complaints and while I don't use it a lot, when I hae it's done all I'd expect it to do...it's critical to always work from the same face and to ensure the fence is aligned and all, but if done that, I've never had any alignment issues..
Last task for it was six hexagonal window frames for a friends kiddy-house...they went together with no gap and no mismatch on any of the edges "first time, every time" after the setup trial run...that took a few adjustments, but not tremendous.
I think they're very useful for certain tasks...but it's so much faster to run a glue joint on the shaper if one really wants precise alignment for glue-ups, etc., ...
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It's not an alignment problem. It's just downright sloppy. The thing sounds like a broken coffee grinder, too. What a POS.

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On 8/18/2016 8:27 PM, dpb wrote:

I actually went through 2 PC plate joiners, a 556 which I bought around 1990 and much later replaced it with a 557. I literally used a few thousand biscuits with the 556. Not so much with the 557 for the same reasons. While the 557 looked like a Ferrari compared to the 556 it had QC problems IMHO. It is a shame that the design was not implemented well.

Absolutely! And also important to use the fence as a reference vs. using the bottom of the tool on a work surface.

IIRC I used mine to cut a slot for a desk lock arm to engage when in the locked position.

The concept is very good, Festool capitalized on the concept and built in precision fit along with a much better quality type of biscuit/Domino as the floating tenon.
I never dreamed that I would use the Domino more than the Plate Joiner but I have bought 7 times more Domino tenons as I did flat footballs.
It will be great for the common woodworker in 10~12 years when he or she will be able to afford a version of the Festool Domino, very much like when Fein no longer controlled the market with the Multimaster.
I sure wish I had room in my shop for a shaper. ;~)
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On 08/18/2016 9:32 PM, Leon wrote:

...
The one I have is Ryobi iirc; wife bought it as a gift; I didn't have one even on the radar at the time...
It's not the most sturdy thing in the world by any stretch and it does take some tinkering w/ the fence to actually get it aligned, but the thing is one doesn't need to be precisely centered; only use the same reference side...
The noise isn't any worse than any router, less than many and for an inexpensive tool it has very little runout. I've just never found the biscuits to be loose in a slot; it takes pliers to get one out even before glue.
I don't suppose I've used a bag of biscuits in the 20 yr had the tool, but again for the occasion it works very well imo...
...

Would never be without it...or actually, "them"... :)
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It, them! Now you are just bragging. LOL. Good on you!

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On 08/19/2016 11:35 PM, Leon wrote:

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But I don't have the tilting, multi-spindle version (yet...) :)
In _some_ justification, I started out with a used Craftsman (the 1/2" spindle open grid model), eventually got the similar but solid table small Delta and finally many years later the old Rockwell-Delta (Milwaukee vintage) heavy-duty model with 3/4" and 1" spindles that can take the larger panel-raising cutters, etc. And, of course, when that journey began, the router wasn't what it is today or even close and the availability of router bits was even more extremely limited as well...now, excepting for the really large commercial enterprises, the situation is mostly reversed; there are far more router-bit profiles available easily than shaper cutters in the 1/2" and lesser sizes, Delta quit making them entirely a number of years ago, and the stub spindle is almost unheard of any longer for things like the coping cut on window/door rails to allow the full-length tenon instead just the stub. I complained to Lonnie Bird at one of his workshops in Knoxville a number of years ago when Delta discontinued them and he had enoough name recognition eventually CMT produced a set with his name...that arrangement no longer seems to be in effect and since left TN I haven't seen him in almost 20 year now. I think maybe at one time he had a deal with Amana Tool, but I don't see that in their catalog now, either. I guess nobody at home makes old-style architectural stuff any more except me... :)
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On 08/20/2016 9:04 AM, dpb wrote: ...

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One of the currently available Amana sets; better than nothing altho w/ just 1/4" shank is a little puny for more than just the occasional door or two. When needing to produce 20 or so, not so much...
<http://www.toolstoday.com/p-5251-window-stile-rail-cutters.aspx
Couldn't find picture of the stub spindle for the LD or HD shaper off-hand, here's a listing of the double-ended one for the old 43-355 that has good picture of the stub end...
<http://www.ebay.com/itm/43-357-Delta-Double-Ended-Shaper-Spindle-for-43-355-NEW-/330549756791
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On 8/20/2016 9:04 AM, dpb wrote:

Oh! Then I take back what I said. ;~)

Yeah, a slippery slope. I think the expense of the shaper cutters is what held my back over my router table set up. Now, in the last 6 years I think a shaper may have served me well for other uses that are not quite right for a router table set up.
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On 08/21/2016 9:41 AM, Leon wrote: ...

Hey, "it's only money and last I heard they _still_ won't let you take it with you..." <vbg>

The larger table for one, although one can always build extensions, to make them rigid and level w/o any catch-lines, etc., and the miter slots, etc., etc., etc., ... while doable takes a fair amount of effort.
Pattern shaping and the larger panel-raising or similar are the real advantages for me; plus simply the bulk makes a much more enjoyable tool to use; it's like a SawStop Pro or PM66/2000 vis a vis the contractor saw--the little guy can get the job done, but the heft simply makes things better, particularly if the workpieces get larger or the numbers get up there, both of which occur regularly in architectural work which what I've mostly done, particularly over last number of years vis a vis cabinet or furniture...
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On 8/22/2016 8:55 AM, dpb wrote:

The large raised panels are what I would be thinking.
I do have a question, the last two jobs I had involved 14 raised panel drawer fronts made out of red oak.
While my router table had no issue with spinning a 3+" raised panel bit, I did this in about 3 passes, I wanted to take a very lite final pass.
Do you get better cuts across grain with raised panel tooling on a shaper or is this mostly dependent on how sharp your cutters are? Or is the angle of attack much different on the cutting edge of a shaper cutter vs. a router bit?
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On 08/22/2016 9:30 AM, Leon wrote: ...

I'm too chicken to spin a 3" cutter on only a 1/2" arbor at router speeds so I can't really comment that much on the geometry question, Leon.
Sharp is key, of course, as well as what actual tip speed is. I generally only take two passes and am also, as a general rule, satisfied with the cut. On really aggressive profiles I make make a clearance cut using an angle on the TS with the panel upright to remove what extra material can be; presuming the panel isn't _too_ tall, of course.
Oh, and on the question of sharp, there's where there can be a _major_ difference between the top-dollar "name" cutters vis a vis Grizz or other generics...Amana is, in my book the blue standard against which to judge all else in the consumer-priced category. There are, of course, in the shaper market, the manufacturers for the commercial shops but you don't even want to hear what a set is from one of them... but the $300 neighborhood doesn't even get you more than a look-see... :)
I've got to get back to the hay fields right now, while mowing I'll think a little more on the subject and see if have any further to add...
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On 8/22/2016 7:14 PM, dpb wrote:

Well unlike a shaper cutter my raised panel bits be gin cutting very close to the shank so they don t reach too far out from the center of rotation. And the cutting edges are about 90 degrees out from the shank. I was thinkin that if the angle of attack on the cutting edge was freater there might be more of a shear action. I crank my router down to about 8K rpm and put the fence even with the front of the pilot bearing so about 1.5~1.75" sticks out. And it is under the piece I am working on. I absolutely use a backer board to push and cover the bit when it exits the work. It really seems kinda slow paced. Nothing really exciting.

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On 08/22/2016 9:16 PM, Leon wrote:

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...

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The operation isn't what scares me...it's the part about "crank my router down to about 8K rpm".
Does your router (or any, for that matter) have any feedback control that prevents it starting at high speed with a cutter above certain diameter or mass?
I was permanently scarred many years ago by witnessing the result of "I was _sure_ I turned it down!" and a large bit like you're describing taking off across the shop and embedding in a solid 6x8 column to the full depth of a cutter wing. Fortunately, the operator first hit the switch while holding the router in front of him and to the side and the trajectory happened to miss the rest of us in the shop, but I was "cured-for-life" of using such bits where the mistake could be so serious or fatal so quick...
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On 8/23/2016 8:15 AM, dpb wrote:

To tell you the truth it looks about like 500 RPM.

I doubt it, but mine, the bigger Triton, has a great EVS. It seems to not slow down or speed up with load changes.

That certainly makes you think. And another reason I buy higher quality when using these type bits.

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On 08/23/2016 9:30 AM, Leon wrote:

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...
Agreed...far better chances. A small one is bad enough but those monsters are something else again...I see 'em in the catalogs and the shank just doesn't look like enough bulk to my eye...I know they test and all but... :)
Also, I'd surely recommend sticking with the way you're using them; _very_ light cuts.
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On Thu, 18 Aug 2016 11:08:38 -0000 (UTC), Doug Miller

Then your either using wrong sized biscuits , wrong size blade the machine incorrectly or the machine has a fault .
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wrote:

Nope. The main problem is that the biscuits aren't all the same thickness.
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On Sat, 20 Aug 2016 21:10:53 -0000 (UTC), Doug Miller

And are intended to swell when the glue wets them. It doesn't work as advertised.
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On 8/20/2016 4:10 PM, Doug Miller wrote:

I never bought this brand but I understand that Lamello makes very good biscuits. And like TBIII glue it is probably best to not buy more than you need for a particular project.
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On 8/20/2016 2:56 PM, steve robinson wrote:
Snip

I think you just about covered every thing that can happen when you use a plate joiner. Pretty observant, you are.
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