Wood is expensive

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Tue, Jan 22, 2008, 12:38pm (EST-3) snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com (Jeff) doth sayeth: It's not that simple. <snip> How many computers did you own in the 1970s? <snip> "the 15,800 board feet of lumber used to frame the average house cost $3,200 at the sawmill gate. Today, the same quantity costs $7,000." <snip>
I was trying to keep it simple. And, you forgot, prices on almost anything depends on location. Before I forget, today I own exactly as many computers now as I did in the 1970s - zero. Sounds to me like you're making a flat statement about the price of lumber for a house. Hell, I live about 15 miles from a moderate size city, you buy a home in the south part of the city, and it might clost $10,000 less than the exact same mode home in the north part, maybe 2-3 miles away, and knowing the lumber cost is about the same. But you go to San Francisco, or somewhere like that, and that identical model home would probably n you well over $1,000,000, and no telling what price the lumber would cost. Location, location, location.
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J T wrote:

If you dig into the stuff you own you may be surprised. Just about anything with a control system these days uses a microcomputer. TV sets, watches, clocks, cars, microwave ovens, small appliances . . .

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Maybe he's doing a Ted Kaczynski and living off the grid...
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Wed, Jan 23, 2008, 6:58am (EST-3) snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com (Jeff) doth sayeth that John done writ: If you dig into the stuff you own you may be surprised. Just about anything with a control system these days uses a microcomputer. TV sets, watches, clocks, cars, microwave ovens, small appliances . To which you writ:. . Maybe he's doing a Ted Kaczynski and living off the grid...
I'm still on the grid, but as much as most of you Ill bet.
No computer, '78 Camino daily driver - in fact my only driver, microwave maybe 15 years old, TV maybe 15 years old, clock maybe 15 years old, wind up pocket watch - when I carry a watch, coffee pot on-off switch only, 4 calculators - none newer than several years - the elcheapo kind. That's as exotic as it gets around here. Still on the grid, but low key - and that's the way I prefer it. Oh yeah, I do carry a cell phone, pre-paid - but it's turned off, emergency use only.
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snipped-for-privacy@webtv.net (J T) wrote:

I'll second the cell phone thing. Damn if I can figure out why anyone would want to be instantly available to all and sundry. I don't even answer the land line. Got a machine does that. If I don't call back, I probably don't want to talk to you. :)
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Thu, Jan 24, 2008, 5:23am (EST+5) snipped-for-privacy@verizon.net (LobbyDosser) doth sayeth: I'll second the cell phone thing. Damn if I can figure out why anyone would want to be instantly available to all and sundry. I don't even answer the land line. Got a machine does that. If I don't call back, I probably don't want to talk to you. :)
My answering machine died a few years back and I never replaced it. Now I don't come back home to messages wanting me to call someone. Yesterday I got a call from someone that had been trying since Mon to get ahold of me. Heh heh. Not to try to sell me sumpin, but to deliver sompin. I was available for alll but about an hour each day. I prefer the no answering machine method.
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J T wrote:

Are you posting to the newsgroup from your coffee maker?
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Thu, Jan 24, 2008, 9:30am (EST-2) snipped-for-privacy@digitalcartography.com (Lumpy) doth queryeth: Are you posting to the newsgroup from your coffee maker?
Yer not from around here, are ya? Don' need no steenkin' computer, got WebTV.
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On Thu, 24 Jan 2008 11:50:55 -0500, snipped-for-privacy@webtv.net (J T) wrote:

What do you think they've got in that box, a cuissinart? It *IS* a computer, you know...
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Thu, Jan 24, 2008, 8:41pm (EST+5) snipped-for-privacy@NOSPAM.verizon.net (BrianHenderson) doth claimeth: What do you think they've got in that box, a cuissinart? It *IS* a computer, you know...
Most of the people at the next to the last place I worked thought they had computers. What they actually had were terminals, hooked into the mainframe computers. What I think is that I've got something along the same lines.. A compuer it ain't.
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snipped-for-privacy@webtv.net (J T) wrote in

You're right. It's not a compuer. It is, however, by definition a computer. It processes, stores, and retrieves information via a logic- based process. Thus, your WebTV box is a computer. QED.
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Fri, Jan 25, 2008, 4:40am (EST+5) snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com (Puckdropper) doth sayeth: You're right. It's not a compuer. It is, however, by definition a computer. It processes, stores, and retrieves information via a logic- based process. Thus, your WebTV box is a computer. QED.
Not really. It's like a remote computer terminal, it accesses a computer, which processes, stores, etc., but it can't do any of it on its own, you disconnect a remote terman from the computer, and it won't do a thing; whereas a PC can function on its own. Bottom line, WebTV isn't near as flexible as a PC, can't download files, slow at times, but it gives me web access, got a printer, let's me send and receive e-mail, daily spam, that'll do for now..
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snipped-for-privacy@webtv.net (J T) wrote in (Puckdropper)

You're thinking of a computer as a personal computer, or a microcomputer. Those are very specific classes of computers, there's many many others. Your WebTV box is a computer, but not a microcomputer.
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a webtv computer matches your definition. so does a modern cash register, for that matter.
the term you're searching for is a general purpose computer, which a webtv is not. it could be thought of more as a specific purpose controller rather than a computer.
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Fri, Jan 25, 2008, 7:32pm (EST+5) snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com (Puckdropper) doth sayeth: You're thinking of a computer as a personal computer, or a microcomputer. Those are very specific classes of computers, there's many many others. Your WebTV box is a computer, but not a microcomputer.
Actually I was thinking of the main frames I used to run, with remote terminals on the manufacturing floor, and in the offices.
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in
but not a microcomputer.
Actually, it is microcomputer. A term applied to the generation(s) of computing devices employing micro-electronics ("chips") instead of te original vacuum tubes, and relays employed in Einacs and such. The IBM PC was one microcomputer, as was the Radio Shack Models I, II, II, , Sinclair, Apple all PERSONAL Microcomputers as opposed to DECs and such which were "impersonal" (:
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Hoosierpopi wrote:

Most people wouldn't think of a Tivo as a "computer". Plug one into a network and try to telnet the IP address and see what happens.
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On Jan 25, 1:26 pm, snipped-for-privacy@webtv.net (J T) wrote:
you disconnect a remote terminal from the computer, and it won't

Not at all, a remote terminal that is powered on will accept input, process the keystrokes and produce output. You will note the evidence of this on the remote terminal's monitor (if there is one) or at the pin outs of the RS232C or other communications port.
Translating the "input" of one pressing the key in the upper left corner of the keyboard into an "Escape" string, for instance, is processing based upon software embedded in the ROM chips. That, absent a monitor, you can see no evidence of this processing and concomitant output does not prove the absence of the processing or delivery of the output.
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Sat, Jan 26, 2008, 9:37am (EST-3) snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com (Hoosierpopi) claimeth: Not at all, a remote terminal that is powered on will accept input, process the keystrokes and produce output. <snip>
Not the ones I was working with. Unplug them from the computer, and they just sit there. Period. You could type on the keyboard all day long, and there would be zip on the screen. They didn't accept any input, they didn't put out any output, they didn't process zip. They accessed the mainframes, and that was it. Monitor, and keyboard, that was it. I'm ignoring you guys from here on out.
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J T wrote:

Had the echo setting turned off. That might be a switch or a keystroke combination.
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