Wood Glue penetration an bonding.

In rereading sealers and end grain, about over sanding =less penetration, I started to wonder about gluing.
Found his article and wondered about your experiences in the subject.
http://www.franklinadhesivesandpolymers.com/docs/default-source/default-document-library/7-13-15sticky-biz.pdf?sfvrsn=0
Advice on Gluing for furniture, etc.
Read another from tite bond and their opinion was the more it was sanded for a .02 to .06 Smoothness the better otherwise the wood would be too gappy with fibres to get a good bond. Then epoxy is better.
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On Wednesday, October 5, 2016 at 6:47:36 PM UTC-5, OFWW wrote:

ocument-library/7-13-15sticky-biz.pdf?sfvrsn=0

Well, for one point, noted below, this is not always the cast...
"Stated another way, when a wood product develops a crack or similar failur e, we should potentially see 100% wood failures and never glue failures. Yet in p ractice, we often see failures in the glue joint itself. How can this be? The answer is that some thing was done incorrectly when making the glue joint."
Glue ages, and sometimes the glue will fail because it's old.
I haven't read further in the pdf article, but it's late, so I may read fur ther, tomorrow.
In the meantime, I had a glued joint and wood fail, yesterday. I had a roc ker frame assembled, long ago, and recently retrieved it, to finish buildin g the rocker, a "two seat" (or loveseat type) rocker. All but the slats an d rockers had been installed. I was doing some final sanding, of the frame , and it fell off the work bench. The arm assembly, including the front le g, broke and/or came apart. I cut the remaining fracture (compromised/loos ened joint) apart, to clean & reglue the set-up. The dowels had broken and the glue had failed, from the impact/trauma, not the framing wood, which is oak.
It's late, tonight. I'll see/inspect mo betta, tomorrow, as I'm a bit not pleased, tonight.
I think that might be a good artivle to read. I'll read it, further, tomor row, or later. Thanks for posting it.
Sonny
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On Thursday, October 6, 2016 at 12:13:15 AM UTC-4, Sonny wrote:

-document-library/7-13-15sticky-biz.pdf?sfvrsn=0

ure, we

practice, we often see

mething was done

urther, tomorrow.

ocker frame assembled, long ago, and recently retrieved it, to finish build ing the rocker, a "two seat" (or loveseat type) rocker. All but the slats and rockers had been installed. I was doing some final sanding, of the fra me, and it fell off the work bench. The arm assembly, including the front leg, broke and/or came apart. I cut the remaining fracture (compromised/lo osened joint) apart, to clean & reglue the set-up. The dowels had broken an d the glue had failed, from the impact/trauma, not the framing wood, which is oak.
How long ago is "long ago"? I asked because you said:
"Glue ages, and sometimes the glue will fail because it's old."
Do you think it was "long ago" enough for the glue to have failed due to age? If not, I'm surprised to hear that both the glue failed and the dowels broke from the same fall.
Is your workbench on a roof? ;-)

t pleased, tonight.

orrow, or later. Thanks for posting it.

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On Thursday, October 6, 2016 at 7:52:15 AM UTC-5, DerbyDad03 wrote:

I had assembled the rocker/chair frame, probably, 25-30 yrs ago. Since it was never completed, ther was no finish applied. I suspect the wood expand ed & contracted and this contributed to the joint failure. Also, the dowel s used (seat frame to leg/arm assembly) were 3/8".
*A completed similar rocker had 1/2 dowels and is still secure and working fine - https://www.flickr.com/photos/43836144@N04/8146451730/in/dateposted- public/
With this latest rocker, I cut off the original heart-shaped top of the ba ckrest and installed a different contour. https://www.flickr.com/photos/43 836144@N04/24114226093/in/dateposted-public/
It's a little taller, now, so this made for it being a little more top-heav y. The legs, at this point, have not been cut to length, so the frame sta nds awkward, which contributed to its unsteadiness and, hence, contributing to its falling off the work bench.
Here, and the next pic, is the broken frame - https://www.flickr.com/photos /43836144@N04/29857651780/in/dateposted-public/
Sonny
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Sonny wrote:

Just looking at some of your pictures. Is your last name Underhill? Love your work!
--
GW Ross

Politicians and diapers need changing
  Click to see the full signature.
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On Thursday, October 6, 2016 at 11:26:54 AM UTC-5, G. Ross wrote:

Thanks GW.... and that Underhill compliment is way too generous.
Sonny
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On Thursday, October 6, 2016 at 11:18:57 AM UTC-4, Sonny wrote:


25-30 years? I though taking 2-3 months to complete the simple bed I'm building was too long. ;-)

wood expanded & contracted and this contributed to the joint failure. Also , the dowels used (seat frame to leg/arm assembly) were 3/8".

g fine - https://www.flickr.com/photos/43836144@N04/8146451730/in/dateposte d-public/

backrest and installed a different contour. https://www.flickr.com/photos/ 43836144@N04/24114226093/in/dateposted-public/

avy. The legs, at this point, have not been cut to length, so the frame s tands awkward, which contributed to its unsteadiness and, hence, contributi ng to its falling off the work bench.

os/43836144@N04/29857651780/in/dateposted-public/

That all makes sense. Nice work and good luck with the repair.
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On Wednesday, October 5, 2016 at 6:47:36 PM UTC-5, OFWW wrote:

ocument-library/7-13-15sticky-biz.pdf?sfvrsn=0

Thanks for posting that. That's a pretty nifty piece, one that I will be p assing out to some of my woodworking friends. Interesting take on using wat er to test your surface for certain glues.
As long as I have been doing this... I missed two on the test!
So an old dawg can still learn.
And the comment on epoxy... miss you Lew. I remember how delighted he was when I was repairing kitchen drawers with 30 minute epoxy. The drawers had very worn half blind dovetails (factory made decades ago)and had all hardw ood sides, backs and faces. In great shape except for the joinery. I mixe d up a quart of epoxy in a giant squeeze container and filled in the joints of every drawer and had them reinstalled with their new hardware at the en d of the day. My competition indicated that to properly repair the drawers they would have to take them to their shop, break them down, do some other kind of woodworking voodoo, glue them up, clamp them overnight, and transp ort back to the site.
I had always used epoxy as a kill shot gap filler, but never used that much at one time. Worked great. Still see the client; that was about 12 years ago, and he is the kind that would let me know if something was wrong. Not sure who was more delighted with the epoxy trick, Lew or my client.
Robert
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On Thu, 6 Oct 2016 11:09:44 -0700 (PDT), " snipped-for-privacy@aol.com"

Yea, I read the water test, who would've thought. But that is definitely a keeper for me.
Amazing all the variables.
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