Wood glue

I am beginner woodworker, so far worked only with pine on various simple to moderate complexity projects: simple cabinets, vanity. I used only yellow glue as Titlebond II and Emmers Wood Glue. In general I am very satisfied with both glues, they hold strong, sand easily and seem to be invisible after finishing and they are relatively inexpensive. Now I am planning my first hardwood (oak or cherry) furniture project and evaluating if yellow glue is as good for hardwood too. What's in general advantage and disadvantage of yellow glue vs. polyurethane glue like gorilla glue? Are there any other types of glue to be considered and where?
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Alexander Galkin asks:

Yellow glue is fine for cherry projects and most other N. American hardwoods.
Yellow glue is not waterproof, though TB II is highly water resistant. Polyurethane glue is waterproof.
There are several woodworking glues that MIGHT be considered, but in general either Titebond or Titebond II or one of the Elmer's glues, or one of the Lee Valley glues consisting of PVA structure (polyvinyl acetate) is more than sufficient for a hardwood project. The glued joint, if made correctly, will be stronger than the wood itself.
Charlie Self "It is even harder for the average ape to believe that he has descended from man." H. L. Mencken
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On 25 Jun 2004 20:19:28 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@aol.comnotforme (Charlie Self) wrote:

Yellow glue cleans easily with water (until cured) and it's much cheaper than gorilla glue. Unless you're going to be submersing your project in water, yellow (pva) glue is the way to go.

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The June/July issue of WOOD magazine has some information on different glues ranging from yellow to Polyurethane to hotmelt to hide to epoxy to CA. This is not an indepth evaluation of the glues but more just table of properties. Unfortunately, it was sponsored by Titebond so . . .
By the way, I have mentioned this before but maybe someone can explain what this means. The Titebond III bottle does indeed say "waterproof" on the front. So why does it say "Not for continuous submersion or for use below the waterline" on the back, which by the way is the exact wording on the back of TB II. That tells me that it is not really waterproof. Just more water resistant that TB II.
Wayne

to
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[snip]

Yep -- it was basically a Titebond advertisement. It was cheap of Wood Magazine to suggests otherwise -- to suggest it was a fair comparison was wrong. Maybe it was a fair comparison of Titebond glues! My esteem for Wood magazine was diminished because of the egregious omission of Gorilla glue in the comparision and the fact that a manufacturer was allowed to do the comparision. It's like letting DeWalt review routers and, guess what, they only included DeWalt routers.
I'd bought a bottle of Gorilla glue in protest.

[snip]
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One thing that I thought was interesting anyway was that many glues have greater strength rating than Polyurethane including Titebond II and III and even Yellow". Not by much, but still. . . If you want real strength, it looks like structural epoxy.
Since it only talked about Titeass glues. . .er. . .uh. . .I mean TiteBOND glues, I was making a nasty "assumption" that competing glues from other companies would be similar in their characteristics.
A couple of other interesting and potentially useful columns were shelf life and cleanup.
I think another reader posted the url for an evaluation of glues that was in FWW magazine. I'm sure that one must be a little better.
Wayne

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to
Yes the yellow wood glues work just as good with most hardwoods. For dark hardwoods, look for the brown tinted Elmer's glue.
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While not too important this time of the year, one advantage for me for polyurethane (gorilla) is that it can be used at lower temperatures. This winter my basement was cold enough so that Tightbond II would tend to chalk up, while Gorilla worked just fine. The temp was in the 50s.
I've also started to make more use of epoxies in my woodworking as well. One of the recent woodworking mags (forget which one) had an article about how a professional furniture builder uses epoxy.
On Fri, 25 Jun 2004 15:48:06 -0400, "Alexander Galkin"

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On Fri, 25 Jun 2004 15:48:06 -0400, "Alexander Galkin"

The yellow glues will work fine. I'd stay away from Gorilla. At about $2 per ounce it's expensive, and when you open it you better use it all cause it hardens in the container quite quickly.
If you really need a polyurethane glue get some Roo Glue from Woodcraft. It costs about the same as yellow glue, and you use it the same way. Open and set times are about the same as yellow glue also. The plus is that it will glue almost anything to anything. When dry it's almost clear.
I prefer to buy glue by the gallon, and Roo Glue only comes in pints (IIRC), so I use it only when doing melamine cabinet carcases, but in that application it works quite well.
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wrote:

[snip]
I've have not had the same experience with Gorilla glue. If I put the top back on and store it at room temp, it last a very long time. Given the holding power, and the ease of use, I don't think it's too expensive either. [snip]
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On Fri, 25 Jun 2004 15:48:06 -0400, "Alexander Galkin"

When used properly, yellow carpenter's glue is exceptionally strong. When you build your project, carefully plan the glue up process (protected work surface, damp sponge, clamps, dry fit and time). I've used Elmer's Carpenter's glue for over 20 years with good results. There is a waterproof type.
Polyurethane glue is great for outdoor projects. It has a short shelf life and stains the skin. It foams up during the cure process and uses moisture to cure. Because it has such a short shelf life, I find this glue expensive.
What you really need to be concerned about is getting glue on surfaces you plan to stain or finish. After years of experience somehow I know how much glue to apply with very little excess squeeze out. Good luck with your project and let us know how it turns out.
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When all is considered you are probably not going to gain any meaningful advantage using one of those glues over another for indoor projects so, I'd say, if you are happy with PVA glue continue on with it. If you feel adventuresome give a poly glue a try. I would suggest that if you do use poly glue you wear gloves. It takes to skin easily and there is almost no getting it off once it is on there. You just have to wait for it to wear off.
Try this location for an overview of glues
http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworking/pages/w00010.asp
--
Mike G.
Heirloom Woods
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I'd
If you wipe you hands or finger while it still sticky with Polyurethane you can easily remove it with acetone or finger nail polish remover. After it cures, it wears off.
Polyurethane is also easier to get into tight spots because it expands as it cures and fills in the areas that you may not have been able to reach.
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it
An interesting thought that I failed to consider since I, as a general rule, apply glue to joints before I assemble them which means I can always reach the places that need glue and I also try really hard to make my joints so there are no spaces for a foam with no structural strength to fill any such voids. Should I fail I try to fill those gaps with something that at least looks like the wood I am working with.
--
Mike G.
Heirloom Woods
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Yeah, I was referring more to deep mortis and tenon joints or where a peg goes into a small round hole where you cannot easily apply glue to all of the surface or where the mortise inner sides are less thatn perfectly smooth. ;~) Basically those cut with a chisel or mortiser. Actually you should allow for air spaces in the bottom of these type joints.
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I agree, using Poly glue in poorly fitting joints results in extremely POOR or NO strength to that joint if the glue has to FOAM to file the joint. The foam has NO structural strength to speak of
If the joints have gaps that NEED a foaming glue to make up for the porr craftmanship, the builder needs to rethink his skills that are producing those joints
John
On Sun, 27 Jun 2004 08:45:49 -0400, "Mike G"

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