WJ Book

[snipperectomy]

Joey, I couldn't agree more. In a roundabout way, it's an invasion of some sort. It's right up there with that call from a telemarketer. That neighbour's dog doing his business on MY lawn.

I got pissed off a couple of days ago when I paid money to go see a movie (Hitchhikers Guide To the Galaxy..thought it was just GREAT). Starting time was 7:30.

7:45 they were STILL running commercials for this, that, and the other. WTF?? That is using time *I* paid for.

PS..when a telemarketer calls, I always ask for his/her home-phone number so I can call them back....or I answer in a language I make up as I go along.

Reply to
Robatoy
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I don't know about you, but where I come from we don't get upset when the price of something we use and enjoy goes down. We take advantage of it. If I were to buy something at Circuit City or Best Buy or Home Depot or Lowes and the following week I see that the store has the some product on sale for less money, I would go back to them and ask them to refund the difference. In almost every case the store will gladly refund the price difference. In fact, they often have special forms printed just to accomodate such transactions. (The alternative is for them to go through the hassle involved if you chose to return the object for a refund of the original price and then re-buy it at the sale price, ro worse, from some other vendor.) Here's the good news: the same situation applies to magazines. When Woodcraft Magazine was first announced, a lot of people around here balked at the 6 issues for $39.95 subscription price. Nevertheless, some people bit the bullet and subscribed anyway. But the publishers obviously got wind of the dissatisfaction with what was perceived as a high price and did what any smart business people would do: they made an adjustment in response to the marketplace. Now you can subscribe to Woodcraft and get 7 issues for $19.97, a price most people find more agreeable. But what about those folks who already paid the higher price? All they have to do is call the toll-free subscription number (in Woodcraft's case,

800-542-9125) and ask for an adjustment. I don't think they'll refund the difference in cash but I am quite sure they would be happy to extend the length of the subscription on a pro-rated basis so that your actual cost will work out to the lower annual rate. And I know this will probably upset a few people who never seem to be satisfied, but in the same way that department stores don't automatically mail you a check if they lower the price on something you already bought, magazines aren't going to automatically extend your subscriptions. You still have to pick up the phone and ask.

Lee

Reply to
Lee Gordon

We (educated consumers) know that unsolicited merchandise can legally be considered a "gift" and may be kept without obligation to either return it or pay for it. And in that repect, I can completely sympathize with your annoyance at being billed for the book you recieved.

However, what I cannot sympathize with is for someone to come in here and speak his mind about the topic du jour and at the same time tell another participant that he should "sit back and be quiet." You have the right to grouse to your heart's content about what you perceive as shoddy marketing practices. It is, after all, a public forum. So by the same token, I think telling AJ to pipe down is out of line. (Note: I have no business telling you not to express your opinion; I'm just letting you know that I disagree.)

Lee

Reply to
Lee Gordon

First, I'd be glad that prices have gone down on something these days. To my certain knowledge, lowering prices has been a time-tested way of increasing sales. It bugs you? Life's like that.

Second, you didn't really ask questions. You sniped.

George Bush takes all sorts of questions? Pardon me while I wait for my the laugh pains in my sides to subside.

Journalism is not about answering questions on an internet forum. I read one guy supporting another who felt the first person was unfairly castigated. You read a conspiracy, or something, of industry insiders patting each other on the back.

We disagree.

Oh, if I were you, I'd toss the invoices.

Reply to
Charlie Self

Why did your grandmother have children? I don't know the answer to that, either.

Reply to
Charlie Self

Re=read what I wrote. He is able to make any comment he want, but must be willing to take the heat for them also. Just like I did, just like you are. If he wants to be an apologist for the publishing industry, he is a full blown participant and subject to other's comments about his.

Reply to
Edwin Pawlowski

On 26 May 2005 01:17:52 -0700, the inscrutable "Charlie Self" spake:

Let me add a caveat to that advice, Charlie. If they have some sort of auto invoicing system, it might trigger a collection agency tactic next. Getting it handled in person might be a smarter idea. Nobody needs their credit ruined over a stupid marketing stunt.

Reply to
Larry Jaques

...............DAMN!!!

Reply to
Robatoy

Rob, I appreciate that you've hit the group to explain your business practices. I was a respondent in the last thread on this topic and for the most part have no problem with what you're doing. I, however, got a bill and no book. From the repeated threads on this topic, I knew what was going on so I just round filed the bill and laughed at it. If I get repeated bills, it will aggravate me though.

I've been involved professionally in this type of "negative solicitation" practice and have found that it may make sense economically to do it this way, but it has never made sense from a customer relations standpoint. You always end up making people angry at you over the littlest things. Good will is hard to come by in a business and a lot easier to lose over these kind of practice.

Just my 2 cents

Gary in KC

P.S. My subscription is safe - I've always enjoyed your magazine.

Reply to
Gary A in KC

LOL.. Just yankin you chain Charlie...

Reply to
Leon

Well, Charlie, you told me to get facts. Can I assume that you know ofr a fact that prices did go down for everyone all the time? That is my question. Is there stages of pricing depending on when and how you renew? When is the best time to renew? Are you speaking for WJ or for yourself with your statement above?

One man's question is another man's snipe.

That was my first inclination. On later thought (Rob opened the door) I decided that bringing this practice to the attention of others is important. I can possibly save a few bucks for others that choose to buy the magazine. I probably won't take the time to cancel, but I will definitely has second thought at renewal time next year. This situation also determines what I do with other discretionary spending. The Rockler family is involved with this publication. Once the association is made, you have to wonder about other things.

Reply to
Edwin Pawlowski

Ed,

When you renewed your subscription for $24.95 you got a deal/service/bargain that you wanted. I assume you thought that was a fair price, that's why you renewed. At a later point a the magazine changed the offer. Why they lowered the price, doesn't really doesn't matter, they did. That's a business decision they made. I don't understand why that should bother you. You renewed your subscription. At a price you wanted to pay. If you feel taken, ask for the reduced price or get a refund. Just remember, you got what you wanted at a price you wanted to pay.

The Woulda, Coulda and Shoulda game is only to be played to learn and grow. Learn something and move on.

Jack Jacksonville, FL

-- "We are measured by the size and importance of the things that upset us."

Reply to
John Flatley

My concern is about mulitiple pricing schemes. Did it go down for everyone? Is this a tactic for renewal where the price drops as it gets closer to the last issue? Do you have a problem with finding that out?

Here is the bad news. I'm a Woodcraft customer. I get their weekly newsletter and in one issue they announced the magazine and the opportunity to subscribe. I clicked the link and it took me to the page whee I could sign up for $39.95. I thought it was high and frankly, I expected that loyal customers would have gotten a special deal. We did not.

What is so bad about that? I did not sign up at $19.95 either. One less subscriber to help with their advertising rates. AJ did say t hat Woodcrat Magazine is a separate entity from the Woodcraft stores. That is true, but we tend to make those associations that they are somehow connected. It makes me feel that Woodcraft is a rung or two lower on the ladder than they could have been. Meantime, my local franchise is still a good store and I'll probably continue to buy from them. Ed

Reply to
Edwin Pawlowski

An open letter to Rob Johnstone... or, perhaps, beating a dead horse.

Mr. Johnstone,

I am a subscriber to Woodworkers Journal. It was the first WW magazine that I subscribed to, I like it and I intend to continue receiving it.

I, too, received the "free" book. I didn't ask for the book, I don't want to participate in the program and I don't want to go through the process of sending it back.

I am probably not the oldest reader here, but I am far from the youngest, therefore I know:

  1. The technique used by your company to market this book is common practice by many.
  2. I am under no obligation to reurn the book nor to pay for it.
  3. Multiple requests for payment should not be taken personally, they are just the result of over zealous programing.

The hard part for me is receiving multiple requests for payment. The rational part of me knows that this is just a computer generated technique to generate additional revenue, however, on another level, it feels as if you are attacking my name and reputation. I pay all my bills on time and I get heartily pissed off when someone (man or machine) claims I don't. If the book offer was as noble as you described, you would have sent me ONE bill period. If I didn't respond, you would let go and move on.

I acknowledge that, following a phone call to your offices, the billing has stopped. (At least I think so.) The bad feeling remains and is shared by others as evidenced by the shear number of posts on this topic.

I wish you success with your magazine, and your book club too. I sincerely hope you modify your marketing techniques, however, to preserve to respect my woodworkers have for your products.

Respectfully,

Bill Leonhardt

Reply to
Bill Leonhardt

Well. my two cents also -

For all those who are bitching - lighten up. I defend your right to bitch but really! Have none of you ever heard of marketing? They deal in statistics and percentages. Mail out 10,000 books like this - you'll get some back, some will be kept and SOME will get paid for. That's the way it works. That's the way it has ALWAYS worked. AND in spite of the bitching, that's the way it will continue to work. Why? BECAUSE THE MARKETING METHOD WORKS AND THEY MAKE MONEY!

It was stated that they are a "for profit" business.

I kept the book - IMHO it was so-so - not worth buying but it was free. I've received two invoices since - guess what - I threw them out.

To those who worry that their credit rating will be destroyed..... I'd worry about the sky falling first - that could be dangerous.

As far as different price levels for renewals - respectfully, what world have you been living in? I have heard this same complaint, AND have made it myself for the last 60 years. There were times when I found it easier to cancel my current subscription to a magazine and get a refund and then re-up at a lower rate than.

I have often had the impression that different areas of publishing don't talk to each other.

Anyhow, as stated, that's *MY* two cents worth.

Keep sending out the free books boys - love freebies!!!!

Vic

Reply to
Vic Baron

I did learn something. Don't trust the first offer from a publisher. As I stated, I did not intend to bother with anything, but the opportunity to learn about it came up. So, why not learn? Is knowing the standard practice a bad thing? Is knowing how to save money for the same product/service a bad thing? Is sharing that information in a newsgroup a bad thing?

I am curious to know if this is a standard industry practice or something that recently happened to reduce prices. Why do you feel I'm wrong in wanting to know that? Airlines sell tickets to the same destination on the same plane at different rates at different times. I just want to know if magazines do that.

Reply to
Edwin Pawlowski

Since I replied to this, I received an email from WJ. With their explanation, I seems I'm getting a good deal. I'm at work and my papers are at home, but I have no reason to doubt what they told me.

I asked, they answered. That is what my message was about. Rob was willing to come forward yesterday, one of his associates contacted me today. I appreciate that and it helps keep a good relationship between us. Ed

Reply to
Edwin Pawlowski

I'm *sure* it's standard industry practice. ISTM that *most* magazines do that: send out the initial renewal invoice six to nine months before your subscription expires and hope you renew; then, if you don't, as your subscription expiry date approaches, send out further invoices at progressively lower prices until you finally take the hook.

Reply to
Doug Miller

It has gone on for decades. Something over 35 years ago, we had a subscription to Life, at about a nickel a copy. We didn't have time to read it, so let it lapse (this was about '67 or '68). It kept coming until we left that address in late '72. But the nickel a copy, IIRC, was down from something like 15-20 cents for a regular subscription, which was a dime or more under newsstand rates.

Of course, if you want hear about a real scam artist, talk to A.J. about the outfit that is still trying to sell Woodshop News subs for about $72. Nothing to do with WSN, but they do suck some people in (they also sell subs to Newsweek and similar mags at exorbitant rates).

Reply to
Charlie Self

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