Why my table saw scares the hell out of me.

[rob]

Hey

I am new to woodworking and I have found my self avaoiding using my table saw. I have a delta 10 inch saw and it is vibration free. However, I think that my early experiences have scarred me. ( luckily only mentally).

When I first got the saw, one of my friends related a story to me about kickback that is burned into my mind. This friend had a professor (this story sounds fake already) who saw a kid ripping a long board that was warped. The board binded in the saw, kick back and hit him in the sac and burst one of his testicles.

Obviously, this has had an affect on my sawing technique.

When I was in junior high shop classes, I received very poor grades and although I was saftey conscience I never thought I would be using those skills again so my effort was poor. ( Being a teacher now I can only sympathize with Mr. Newton)

So basically I knew nothing about the table saw and for my first thing I crosscut 8 ft 2x4s. After putting them through with the miter guide I could feel the wood binding and my testicles immediately called for me to turn off the saw. After doing some research I learned a lot about crosscut sleds and why you shouldn't cut long things the narrow way.

So then I am cutting some poplar 1X8 and I am standing off to the left side and on the side of the fence I hear the saw start to have some trouble on the cut and all of a sudden I see the cut off piece shoot across the garage and hit a metal sheet propped up against the side. It was like a missle. I think it hit the sheet metal at about the tables height!

So I do a little research and I find that my saw blade ws up too high. I think that I was also pushing the wood toward the fence at the height of the blade and behind the blade.

Since then I have lowered my blade and been aware of where I am putting pressure on the wood in relation to the blade so I have not had any more kickbacks.

However, I am still standing at the back left side of the saw with the fence on the right. What can I do so I can actually feel comfortable ripping a board and not having a 10 ft push stick? I feel like less of a man!!

FYI I bought the saw off of craigslist and the guy told me 8 times that it wasn't stolen. But then he also tried to sell me a 18v dewalt and a router out of his trunk. He also wouldn't meet me in the orange borg parking lot (He says they like him and everything, but there are some legal issues.)

He claims he only used the saw twice, but one of the bolt holes connecting it to the stand is broken.

Maybe my table saw wants to kill me for the bad karma of buying a saw that was obviously stolen (in reterospect)

Sorry for the long post but it is definitely a kind of therapy. I wsa surprised when so many people talk of how they never see kickback and I have seen it at least three times. Hope this was at least entertaining.

[dadiOH]

Stand at the right side or move the fence to the left side. Either way, you won't have to reach over the blade.

[Locutus]

Being new to the tablesaw, I always wonder about this. I haev read that you should stand to the left side of the table, but when ripping that means I am reaching over the blade to push the stock through. Is this incorrect?

[alexy]

^^^^^^^^^^

Hopefully not of English! [This coming from one who just sent an email to a friend asking whether to use very course[sic] sandpaper for a certain job]

Did you state this correctly? You mean at the outfeed side???

_The Table Saw Book_ by Kelly Mehler

[dadiOH]

You need to be where you can push the stock, and keep out of the way of the saw blade and any kickback. If one pushes with the right hand, the most comfortable place is usually to the left of the blade but one's hand or arm should never be above the blade. If one pushes with a fixture riding on the fence, it is easy enough to stand to the right. Same is true if the stock is wide and you push with your hand. If the stock is narrow and you are to the left and you can't push the end through keeping your arm/hand from being above the blade use a good push stick.

Main thing is to cut the wood and not get hurt.

[Locutus]

I purchased this book based on the recommendations I read here.

I am curious if you have actually read this book? The main thing I learned from this book was the European saws are superior to saws sold here in the US.

I can't really say I learned much more than that.

[Chris Friesen]

No, that's correct. It's easier to push into the fence and past the blade.

If you stand on the right of the fence, then you need to pull the piece into the fence while pushing it past the blade...which is more awkward.

Typically with kickback the piece rises up at the back, then the top teeth of the saw dig in to the bottom of the workpiece and fling it. It generally goes more or less . There is relatively little chance of your arm being hit.

Chris

[Teamcasa]

Kick-back is operator error. I've had many a board warp as I ripped it. In the worst cases, as I witness the board warping or closing up after it leaves the blade, I realize I will have to apply more downforce to insure it won't lift. I then, using more downforce, insure it stays next to the fence, down on the table and shove it through. I've even seen old-timers shove a 16'd nail behind the cut to prevent the board from closing. (This action might scare the week of constitution but it works)

If I need to rip more of the same stock, knowing it will warp/twist I take it to the bandsaw and rip it close to size and touch it up in the tablesaw or jointer.

Dave

[Doug Miller]

That causes me to wonder if *you* actually read it...

[Doug Miller]

[...]

A wooden wedge performs the same function, but is a whole lot safer.

[BILL]

Many moons ago when starting work in a saw mill we bought the timber in the round mostly ash and 4ins thick, it took four men to lift, two to push through the saw and two to pull, my job as a lad was to hammer steel wedges in the cut as near to the riving knife as possible,if this wasnt done the timber would close on the blade, and create a hot spot, the blade then distorted and cause an almighty wobble, my next job was to dive for the off switch.I dont think this happens with modern tipped blades or at least i hope not.

Bill.1

[Markem]

Well after all the good advice about avoiding kickback, your answer might be a jockstrap and a cup. If that fear is overriding your attention.

Yes it is a bit of a smart ass answer but hopefully a bit amusing.

Mark (sixoneeight) = 618

[Tom Gardner]

Good to respect your saw! I can't believe I'm the first to advise you to...BUY A CUP!

[Locutus]

I read it, cover to cover. I just didn't find it all that educational, pretty much just reiterated everything I already knew. And I don't think I know that much about tablesaws.

You didn't find the constant mention of how much better European saws are at least a little bit distracting? If euro saws are great, fine, I live in the US, it doesn't help me to know what I am missing out on. It seems this book is marketed to a US/Canadian market, so I don't understand why so much real estate was devoted to euro saws.

[Andrew Barss]

: So basically I knew nothing about the table saw and for my first thing : I crosscut 8 ft 2x4s. After putting them through with the miter guide : I could feel the wood binding and my testicles immediately called for : me to turn off the saw. After doing some research I learned a lot : about crosscut sleds and why you shouldn't cut long things the narrow : way.

What was binding? You weren't usuing the fence were you? THAT can cause binding and kickback. But if you remove the fence, I don't see how you'd get binding and kickback on a crosscut of somthing 3.5" wide.

: So then I am cutting some poplar 1X8 and I am standing off to the left : side and on the side of the fence I hear the saw start to have some : trouble on the cut and all of a sudden I see the cut off piece shoot : across the garage and hit a metal sheet propped up against the side. : It was like a missle. I think it hit the sheet metal at about the : tables height!

: So I do a little research and I find that my saw blade ws up too high.

What research was this? Forrest, which manufacturers one of the best TS blade lines available, recommends running the blade at full height to reduce kickback. Think about what direction the blade is pushing the wood with the blade all the way up, vs. low down. Also, keeping the blade all the way up places it closer to the splitter, which is a good thing.

The main advantage of keeping the blade low is you won't completely cut your hand off if it runs into the blade. But since you should be using a good guard, which keeps you from doing that, this isn't relevant.

You should also be using a splitter, which is the main prenetative device for kickback. The wood can't twist into the blade if there's a good splitter in use.

: However, I am still standing at the back left side of the saw with the : fence on the right. What can I do so I can actually feel comfortable : ripping a board and not having a 10 ft push stick?

Get a good guard and splitter. Use board buddies or something similar.

- Andy Barss

[Lee Gordon]

Having read your dissertation, two things come to mind. First, crosscutting

8-foot 2X4s seems a rather odd introduction to the table saw and although you never specifically stated it, I assume you know that when you are crosscutting you should NEVER use the fence. BTW, that story about the guy who busted his own balls is almost certainly not apocryphal. The landscape is littered with candidates for the Vienna Boys Choir who got that way due to their own misuse of their power tools.

Second, you should invest 60-70 bucks in a Grrr-ripper.

It won't be of much use for crosscutting 2-bys but it can make you feel a hell of a lot safer when performing ripping operations on the table saw.

Lee

[boorite]

It could happen.

I don't understand this. Crosscutting long stock should never pose a safety hazard. Supporting the workpiece can be a challenge, but what's the safety issue?

What in the lord's name are you doing, using the rip fence as a guide when crosscutting?

If you're ripping and getting that kind of kickback, make sure the blade and the fence are both parallel to the miter gage slts (and each other). If necessary, toe the end of the miter fence out, away from the blade, by 1/32". Use the guard, which presumably has antikickback pawls. You should never, ever get that kind of kickback this way.

With long boards, you may need to jam a wedge into the kerf to keep it from closing.

A high blade should never, ever cause that kind of kickback. In some ways, a high blade is safer than a low one.

You're right to never stand in the line of fire.

Woodworking is spiritual. You can't do anything on a stolen saw.

[marc rosen]

...or you could get a Sawstop. A previous poster saved his vitals with one.

Marc

[Markem]

I'd call it a tie

Mark (sixoneeight) = 618

[Owen Lawrence]

Even though I've seen lots of old pictures of woodworkers wearing ties, I can't see how wearing one is going to protect you from a kickback. (The pictures of the guys operating lathes are the worst ones!)

- Owen -

:)