Why I hate Norm Abrams

Page 3 of 7  


*golf clap*
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On Sun, 23 Aug 2009 21:22:35 -0700, DGDevin wrote:

At my age, wire and pipe weigh a lot less than drywall :-).
--
Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw

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Larry Blanchard wrote:

It isn't the weight that gets me, it's the knowledge that I'm probably capable of connecting the household power grid to the plumbing. Bookcases and umbrella stands and wine bottle racks--no problem. Plumbing and electrical--I'll leave that stuff to the pros. ;~)
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DGDevin wrote:

I would much rather do framing, plumbing and wiring than drywall or painting. I'm certainly qualified and capable of all of those tasks, however drywall is bloody heavy and tedious to tape well, and painting is equally tedious.
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Pete C. wrote:

A good, detail oriented framer can make a 'waller's job much easier. Like anyone else, you have to deal with what you were left.
But I never attempt drywall. It's easy to do a half-a$$ jog of it, even for a so-called pro. Doing a great job at finishing that stuff is a skill and an art that is maintained by doing it repetitively and taking pride in your work. I think *anyone* can get great at it, given a few weeks on the job, but I'll gladly pay the experts to do it.
--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
  Click to see the full signature.
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-MIKE- wrote:

Amen, the only drywall I have ever done was approximately an 8' by 8' wall, i.e. two sheets. I futzed over it for days even when i knew it was going to be mostly covered by kitchen cabinets and a tile backsplash.
But it will look good, if someone ever takes the cabinets down. ;-)
--
Froz...

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wrote:

I suck at drywall. Sure it looks great when I am finally done, but I really don't have to hold the tolerances of a solid surface countertop. I'm in houses, where drywall crews are going at it, at least a couple of times a week and I clearly see the difference between the hacks and the pros. It's an art.
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Robatoy wrote:

Agreed, but it would have been impossible to get a pro in for such a small job. I just had to suck it up, and go with it there, I have hired out for bigger jobs.
--
Froz...

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wrote:

Yup, the small jobs take just as much sometimes as jobs 3 x the size. You have to haul your gear, load up and clean up. Just like the big jobs. In my case, it doesn't matter if I glue up 7 feet or 11 feet of edging on a countertop. It's a 12-foot sheet regardless. And, in terms of time, I can fabricate a 12-foot job in the same time as a 4-foot (give or take a few extra feet of sanding).. the 4-foot job comes with a customer who can't get her/his head around the price... the 12-foot customer 'gets it' much sooner. Small jobs mostly suck unless I can use a remnant which makes up for the PITA.
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Robatoy wrote:

Chuckle. That is one lesson my father the house designer always tries to impart to his customers- they get the most bang for the buck when they design the house around standard material sizes. He likes to design houses where the floor decking and roof decking use full and half sheets, the joists never need trimming, the foundation only uses full blocks, etc. Wasted materials annoy him.
-- aem sends...
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My husband has a friend who's having some space bumped out of her 2nd floor--the standard giant shed dormer kind of thing. The original plan was to have the side wall come out to the existing wall, which would have carried the load nicely. She has some other friend who's an architect, who said that the dormer would look better smaller, so now the builder has to transfer the load a couple feet out to the existing wall. The net addition is about 15% smaller than the original plan, and she was surprised that the quote didn't come in at 15% less. She's lucky it isn't more.
Cindy Hamilton
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On Mon, 31 Aug 2009 10:41:24 -0700 (PDT), Cindy Hamilton

IMO, the architect is right. Shed dormers that go all the way to the outside wall look dumb. My last house was designed like that, but at least it was in the back. Whether the "wasted" space is worth the looks is a matter of opinion. If appearances didn't matter houses would be windowless cubes.
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It was the back of the house in a yard where you couldn't get far enough from the house to really see it. I'd have done what the builder first proposed. The architect has also made it more difficult/expensive to insulate. Luckily, the builder seems like a stand-up guy, so he'll probably do it right.
Relating back to the original topic, while I can see why one could dislike NYW and TOH, one of my favorite TV renovation shows is Holmes on Homes. The guy is capable of a mighty, righteous anger.
Cindy Hamilton
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On Tue, 1 Sep 2009 07:41:16 -0700 (PDT), Cindy Hamilton

As was mine. It still looked dumb.

That's you. As I said, to each his own. But, there is *good* reason to do what the architect suggested. Full shed dormers over the main wall look *dumb*.

The architect did his job so now it's up to the builder to do his. If he didn't think he could do it (and right) he had no business taking the job.

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It takes more than a few weeks to get good at taping or even hanging it for that matter...I've been at it for 20 years and I still lean something new all the time...New and better products , tools , methods , ect....It takes a while to learn how to walk on stilts , using the ALL the different tools and be comfortable on staging then it's closet time for a while and understanding all the different kinds of mud , drywall , screws , beads , trim and where they go and installing them , setting up , getting coffee and making material runs ect..It is a year or so before a rookie is finish taping (just garages and utility rooms and bedrooms , ect.) and even then he won't know all the speciality jobs....There is ALOT more to drywall than taping your little 8X8 bathroom.....For starters doing a "typical" drywall job requires the right tools...I carry over a 1000 dollars worth of hanging and taping hand tools including my stilts 1/2 inch drill , screwgun , Drywall Cut Out Router , ect , ect.......Not to mention the baker staging , pipe staging , platforms and wheels , step and extension ladders , alluminum extension planks , ect. , ect.....A homeowner will try to get by with a mudpan , 6 inch knife and a 12 inch knife for taping and his cordless driver and keyhole saw for hanging while trying to do it off a ladder instead of stilts or staging...You are at a huge disadvantage right out of the gate and no matter how good you think it looks it will still pale in comparison to a pro...Strange how sometimes the difference between a homeowners good job and my work is so very different...Sometimes I go to jobs and the homeowner will say " look at this , I taped this wall , looks good , huh ??" I always smile and say yup , not bad all the while LMAO inside...And the stories I could tell about going to jobs that homeowners try to start...ROFLMAO...I'm always polite though , and say , well atleast you tried....Then proceed to cut out the loose tape and put an 80 grit pad on the powersander and take it all off and start over...If the drtwall looks like crap , especially the ceilings , no matter how pretty the woodwork looks the room will still look cheesy and cheap...The thing that shows the most seems to be the thing that always gets cheaped out....LOL...
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benick wrote:

When I built my first house, I subbed out the drywall and always use the excuse, "Because I want to sell the place."
--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
  Click to see the full signature.
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Smart move...There ain't no hiding a bad drywall job...It is right out there in plain view and the first thing seen....First impressions are everything.....
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benick wrote:

The reason for hiring it out is what I call the "Benefit: Bull$h!t Ratio." It's the amount of crap one has to deal with in doing a task himself compared to the benefit attained from the same.
The B:B ratio is simply to low to be worth it. Like I said before, you have to do drywall and keep doing it to be good at it. Framing, and most of the rest, is like riding a bike to me.
I put roofing in the "too low B:B ratio" category, as well, and not because it takes any real skill. In my experience, roofing is one of the cheapest things to hire out. Plus they're in and out in a day and I'm dry. Or I can be up there for a three days in 98 degree heat. Hmmm. :-)
--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
  Click to see the full signature.
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-MIKE- wrote:

Yes, for me, cosmetic items like taping drywall and painting have a poor B:B ratio since they both require technique that needs constant practice to get a flawless finish. Framing, wiring and plumbing aren't cosmetic and require knowledge to do properly, not much in the way of technique per se.
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My view is that I only do the stuff that's fun or that I can't trust others to do right. The rest, I hire someone. Drywall is no longer fun. Roofing is for people who don't have vertigo.
Luigi
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