Why Do Batteries Suck So Much And When Is It Going To Stop?

[BillyBob]

I guess you're not familiar with some of the IBM/Lenevo models - Titanium composite - a long cry from plastic.

Bob

[BillyBob]

JC Penney lost their shirts on such a deal on car batteries. They didn't even last as long conventional lead-acid batteries.

Bob

[Mark & Juanita]

... snip

Can't comment from direct experience with hybrids, but battery life would be one of my concerns with them as well. Here in AZ, a car battery is usually good for about 2 years, whether it is a 36, 48, or 60 month battery

-- it's good for about 2 years. After having experienced this on my pickup, in our old Explorer, and in our replacement for the Explorer, the result has been the same -- batteries in Tucson are good for about 2 years. After frying my dash panel in the F-150 trying to jump start the 48 month battery that died after about 2 years, I decided that I was going to replace my batteries every two years -- it's cheaper than a $500 dash panel replacement.

So, when I see these hybrids, I wonder the same thing as you, only I'm asking, how expensive is it to replace *those* batteries every 2 years?

Yep -- batteries suck.

+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+ If you're gonna be dumb, you better be tough +--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+

[Dhakala]

We hit the limits of battery chemistry long ago, Tom. It'll never get any better.

Fuel cells may be more to your liking. Hang in there.

[Australopithecus scobis]

I think the point of the hybrids is to reduce the externalized costs of conventional engines. Greenhouse, smog, uppity furriners, that sort of thing. It's hard (for me, anyway) to quantify those other costs, though.

I don't have any battery-powered tools (just scads of small AA-eater gadgets). Just wanted to toss this idea out to you folks who use them: would you find any use for a cranked charger, like the cranked radios? Higher current draw, of course...

[Morris Dovey]

| I don't have any battery-powered tools (just scads of small AA-eater | gadgets). Just wanted to toss this idea out to you folks who use | them: would you find any use for a cranked charger, like the | cranked radios? Higher current draw, of course...

I think I sense a great idea coming on: How about attaching the crank directly to the tool so as to eliminate batteries altogether - I think you could make a drill with cranked gearing...or even a drill that is just a chuck attached to a crank.

Some of the tools in this family could even be simple push-pull tools: How about a screwdriver that all you had to do was push-pull on the handle? A push-pull saw or a push-pull jointer (or even a push-pull sander!)

:-)

-- Morris Dovey DeSoto Solar DeSoto, Iowa USA

[Unquestionably Confused]

Great ideas, Morris. You could even add a little red lens and magnifying glass and equip those saws with a solar guide!

Iowa retro tools. Gotta love it!

[Roy Smith]

My wife's Prius (a 2001 model, IIRC), really does get in the low to mid

40's. Here's a guy who kept track of his gas for 3 years, and averaged 47 MPG (that's probably the newer model, which gets better mileage than the older one my wife has).

I'm not sure what "a few thousand" means, but let's assume you mean $5k. That pays for itself in about 6-1/2 years. That's not a bad ROI.

[Larry Jaques]

On 4 Sep 2005 20:53:42 -0700, the blithe spirit "Dhakala" clearly indicated:

Oh, bullpuckey. Nicads improved, LIon batts came out, air batteries came out, lithiums improved, chargers improved. Change is still happening.

.-. Better Living Through Denial ---

Wondrous Website Design

[Rick M]

"Larry Jaques" wrote

You're absolutely right Larry ... but since the discussions on the wreck have devolved into subjective shouting matches, any attempt to apply facts and analyze the situation gets drowned out.

"Facts ... we don't need no stinkin' facts!"

This thread will be spun the way of pretty much every other thread in the past year or so ... completely out of control, with logic tossed out the window, and the "winner" will be the person that enflames the most readers. Kind of like what our press is doing today ... except the press does it for money, these amateurs do it for fun.

I countered most of the arguments brought forth on the theory that battery technology hit the ceiling, only to see yet another "yea, but" divergence that has little or nothing to do with the topic at hand. It has gotten to the point where I killfile people that "yea, but" conversations just to argue ... and I see that I'm nuking about 50% of the daily messages.

I think I'll just head back to my shop and make some sawdust. I've decided I need to make a couple of scratch gauges and I'm going to attempt to make myself some cam clamps. Once I've gotten those out of the way I'm going to start on a scratch-built guitar (no kits, no reverse-engineered plans ... just starting with an idea and a book). I like the idea of using native woods in my projects, thought the thought of anything but a spruce top has people cringing. Let's see ... rock maple and cherry, no poly and no stain (well, I MIGHT tint the fretboard for contrast). If it doesn't play, I'll use it as a splitting maul!

Any progress on your bow saw? (really big grin!)

Rick

[root]

So how come they don't make a dual-power recharable tools?

...although I'm guessing the answer to this is because a battery is capable of delivering a crapload of power in a short timeframe, which would require a prohibitavely expensive power delivery unit (e.g. massive transformer) for that kind of current draw.

Still, that's an option I'd like to be able to buy, or include instead of the extra battery.

[Mark & Juanita]

... if, and this may be a big "if", you don't have to replace the batteries in those 6 1/2 years. Then the payoff is farther out. Seems like waiting 6 1/2 years is a pretty long time to wait for break-even to me. I certainly would think twice if I was told that an investment would take that long to just break even.

+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+ If you're gonna be dumb, you better be tough +--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+

[PDQ]

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message = news: [e-mail]... | On Mon, 05 Sep 2005 15:11:19 GMT, the blithe spirit "Rick M" | clearly indicated: |=20 | >"Larry Jaques" wrote | >> Oh, bullpuckey. Nicads improved, LIon batts came out, air batteries | >> came out, lithiums improved, chargers improved. Change is still | >> happening. | >

| >You're absolutely right Larry ... but since the discussions on the = wreck | >have devolved into subjective shouting matches, any attempt to apply = facts | >and analyze the situation gets drowned out. | >

| >"Facts ... we don't need no stinkin' facts!" |=20 | You're probably right. |=20 |=20 | >This thread will be spun the way of pretty much every other thread in = the | >past year or so ... completely out of control, with logic tossed out = the | >window, and the "winner" will be the person that enflames the most = readers. | >Kind of like what our press is doing today ... except the press does = it for | >money, these amateurs do it for fun. |=20 | |=20 |=20 | >I countered most of the arguments brought forth on the theory that = battery | >technology hit the ceiling, only to see yet another "yea, but" = divergence | >that has little or nothing to do with the topic at hand. It has = gotten to | >the point where I killfile people that "yea, but" conversations just = to | >argue ... and I see that I'm nuking about 50% of the daily messages. |=20 | My "I" button kicks out a lot more than that nowadays. |=20 |=20 | >I think I'll just head back to my shop and make some sawdust. I've = decided I | >need to make a couple of scratch gauges and I'm going to attempt to = make | >myself some cam clamps. Once I've gotten those out of the way I'm = going to | >start on a scratch-built guitar (no kits, no reverse-engineered plans = ... | >just starting with an idea and a book). I like the idea of using = native | >woods in my projects, thought the thought of anything but a spruce = top has | >people cringing.=20 |=20 | Acoustic gitfiddle? Yeah, they probably cringe for good reason. | But your first is your -practice- gitfiddle, so go for it! |=20 |=20 | >Let's see ... rock maple and cherry, no poly and no stain | >(well, I MIGHT tint the fretboard for contrast). If it doesn't play, = I'll | >use it as a splitting maul! |=20 | If you must, fume the cherry or use some potassium dichromate on it. |=20 |=20 | >Any progress on your bow saw? (really big grin!) |=20 | No, not lately. Hold your breath and I'll let you know, Blue. |=20 |=20 | .-. | Better Living Through Denial | --- |

Wondrous Website Design

Having read most of this thread, I am now convinced, more than ever, = that I was right in not joining the cord-free movement when it first = raised its ugly head.

I know I must be an ante-deluvial throwback but, just as I never leave = home in the summer in my auto without my golf clubs in the trunk, I = never leave home in my work truck without my generator for my corded = tools.

The only batteries I have are clearly marked A, C, D, AA, or AAA.

--=20 PDQ

[Larry Jaques]

On Mon, 05 Sep 2005 15:11:19 GMT, the blithe spirit "Rick M" clearly indicated:

You're probably right.

My "I" button kicks out a lot more than that nowadays.

Acoustic gitfiddle? Yeah, they probably cringe for good reason. But your first is your -practice- gitfiddle, so go for it!

If you must, fume the cherry or use some potassium dichromate on it.

No, not lately. Hold your breath and I'll let you know, Blue.

.-. Better Living Through Denial ---

Wondrous Website Design

[Tim Douglass]

I eyeballed a hybrid a couple years ago but lost interest when they said I'd have to replace the batteries every 3-5 years at a cost of more than 8 grand. I sincerely hope that's not true of the newer ones, but it's kept me away from serious consideration ever since.

-- "We need to make a sacrifice to the gods, find me a young virgin... oh, and bring something to kill"

Tim Douglass

[Grant P. Beagles]

Now you're on to something! ROTFLMAO

[BillyBob]

The other factor is that a hybrid is a *MUCH* more complex and sophisticated piece of machinery - more things to break, more specialized parts. Early reports of high reliability are just that - early reports. Let's see what happens to them in 5-10 years.

I still love my 1991 Toyota previa with 180,000 miles. My average mainteance cost for last four years has been less than $400/year. I don't need no stinkin' electric motor.

Anyone remember the Cadillac 4-6-8?

Bob

[Lee DeRaud]

That technology is making a comeback: Chrysler has it on the 300C. Cadillac had a good idea that needed some advances in technology to make it work right.

Lee

[David]

yeah--a true POS. I used to work on those turds.

Dave

[David]

was right in not joining the cord-free movement when it first raised its ugly head.

the summer in my auto without my golf clubs in the trunk, I never leave home in my work truck without my generator for my corded tools.

Dave