Which gauges for TS alignment ?

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brought forth from the murky depths:

Folks with money usually buy a TS-Aligner. Instructions (and sometimes a video) are included.
Bottom feeders go to Harbor Freight, buy the $10 push-stick safety kit (with the featherboard in it, and you need push-sticks anyway), and add a $10 dial indicator. Run a bolt through the featherboard, mount the indicator, and set your blade to the table. Then check alignment to the fence, check for 90 and 45 angles, etc.
Your library should have some table saw tuning books by Kelly Mehler, Jim Tolpin, Kenneth Burton, etc.
Understocked library? These can be had through WoodWorker's Book Club. Their special is 3 free books, buy one, and pay shipping. Total cost for 4 books: $17.98 (Such a deal!) http://woodworkersbookclub.com /
Disclaimer: No business affiliation but I'm a book club member.
Or check the sites listed here: http://www.google.com/search?q=table+saw+tune-up
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Larry Jaques wrote:

I'm with you, Larry.
If more people had some imagination they wouldn't need all the fancy tools.
For the price of the Jr setup I could get Starrett components and mount them to my miter slide. I would also have one helluva lot more versatile tool.
For a BUNCH less I could go to Harbor Freight, spend a helluva lot less on the same setup and have just as versatile tool.
Folks, your not getting a Starrett or Brown and Sharpe indicator with the TS-Aligner, your getting a Harbor Freight quality indicator. Look at the 90 degree fitting on the web page, it's not at 90 degrees.
You could do better gluing/ epoxying a bent nail to a cheap indicator plunger.
But hey, it's your money. Just don't brag about being ripped off.
--
Mark

N.E. Ohio
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Mark wrote:

Got any slop between your miter slot and the bar they provide for it? If so are you checking that the blade is parallel to the miter slot or the slop in the bar?
The TS-Aligner has three bearing that ride in the miter slot, two fixed and one adjustable left/right. Eliminates ALL the slop. It can be configured for other set up functions and the dial gauge provided ain't no cheopo.

I need all my imagination for coming up with furniture ideas and how to make them. Set ups are not my favorite thing to do and making tools in order to do the set ups is a waste of time - for me.

About that slop thing?
I seriously doubt that you'd have one helluva a lot more versative tool. Check out the TS-Aligner info a bit more.

Oh Ed's gonna get you now. I assure you that the comparison would be more like comparing a craftsman contractor's saw to a Unisaw or PM66 - with a sliding table. Make that a Felder.

Sometime in the near future I'm sure Ed Bennett's going to respond to your uniformed description of his fine product.

I think the responses have been unanimous - the TS-Aligner is a great set up tool at a fair price for what it does and how it does it. I must've missed the post by a dissatisfied customer.
charlie b
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In rec.woodworking

Got any slop between your miter slot and you miter gauge? I've never seen one that didn't. This fascination with thousandths of an inch when working with wood is laughable. An engineer analyzes the problem and determines a reasonable degree of accuracy necessary in his calculations and doesn't waste time or energy or money to achieve unnecessary accuracy.
I do appreciate that it is fun and "neato", but lets recognize that that is all it is. I once calculated pi to over 10,000 digits. It was fun but completely unnecessary. I could calculate the diameter of the universe to less than an inch using pi with just 30 decimal places.
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Bruce,
While there may be slop between the miter gauge and the miter slot there is little to none between the slot and the TS-Aligner. Further there is none measurable between a good fence and the blade. The benefit of the TS-Aligner to me is that with it I can set my blade very accurately with respect to the miter slot and therefore my fence.
I can work to 0.001 with my setup after aligning with the TS-Aligner. (Humidity changes not considered.)
Much of good woodworking, if thoroughly thought out, is based more on precision than accuracy.
RB
Bruce wrote:

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In rec.woodworking

I understand this.

I realize that. If one expects 0.001 accuracy with a miter gauge, obviously they are whacked.

As can I with a dial indicator clamped to my miter gauge and steady pressure applied to the miter gauge to keep it to one side of the slot, which is all the mechanism in the TS Aligner does.

I don't see that you addressed my larger question about the necessity of having the fence and the blade parallel to 0.001" Especially in light of the fact that most manufactururers recommend a 1/64" or 0.0156" heel in the fence.
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I don't see the need for the blade and fence to diverge by 1/64". They certainly shouldn't have negative heel but being parallel (or 0.001 divergent) is fine for me. Along with this statement is the one that says use feather boards and/or something like a RipStrate.
RB
Bruce wrote:

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It's an anti-kickback measure from the days before splitters and pawls.
If you - horrors - don't use a guard for your cuts, it's a good idea.

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The idea is to get the already cut edge away from the rising side of the blade, preventing the board from being lifted and kicked back.
Barry
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B a r r y B u r k e J r .

And so what about the other side of the kerf, the one that's being pushed (by the operator) against the side of the blade?
UA100
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wrote:

My relatively uneducated guess would be that the other side of the blade has nothing to hold the wood against the blade. As I understand it, the lift is only part one of a kick back. Part deux is trapping the lifted / turned board between the fence and the rising blade, giving more for the blade to grab.
We all know what happens next! <G>
Barry
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B a r r y B u r k e J r .

But it does. The operator is holding the wood against the fence. The fence is out one end to the next (1) by 1/64th. By holding the wood against the fence the operator has unwittingly set himself up to have the wood pressed against the blade on the "non-fence" side of the cut. All this is going on with a fence purposely mis-aligned? (question mark used to emphasize why anyone would do something so foolish)
Anyone want to check my math on this?

And by forcing the wood against the blade (from either side of the kerf) we have set Part one into motion.

Purple?
(1) I hope it's 1/64" over the length of the fence and not over the length of the exposed portion of the blade. "That" would be really stoopid.
Just say (tmPL), if you are that concerned about a kick back then do yourself a favor and install/make a splitter. If that doesn't keep your undies dry then consider a short fence for rip cuts.
UA100
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wrote:

I agree. Note that I didn't say I did it, only what the common thinking was. I also believe they're talking the length of the fence.
I tune my fences with wood. It's simple and it works for me. Starting with the fence exactly parallel to the miter slot, I rip a board. I then check the board and waste for burn and blade marks and adjust accordingly.
Works for me, others have other methods.
Biesemeyer says they'll have a snap-in splitter for my saw "soon", I can't stand the stock version.
Barry
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If it didn't work, I guess it would be debatable. Since it does, and has, and anyone reaching far enough to push the offcut into the back of the blade would be a fool, I don't think there's cause for alarm.
Just think of it as creating a shorter blade. The wood does exit at the rear in any case, without the dire effects you imply.
I keep remembering a thread on how to keep the fence on a router table parallel to the cutter. Same thing - only one point counts in cutting.

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That's not what Unisaw is saying.

There certainly will be undesirable effects if the fence is splayed out too much (and I'd say 1/64th is close to too much).

Really? Ever look closely at the waste side of the cut and see burn marks or saw marks arcing upwards? That indicates the rear of the blade was contacting the wood, as it certainly will in the situation Unisaw is speaking of.

Geezus, not me! I need to drop my pants just to count to eleven. :)
--
Jeff Thunder
Dept. of Mathematical Sciences
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If the fence is clear of the blade? Do you realize that the piece does not touch the blade after it's cut because the edges of the teeth are proud of the surface? Seems everyone has the fence "splayed" after all.
Though there is always a number who can't or won't think, any of you folks who can push a straight board up against another and make one end climb away _without a fulcrum_ get back to me.
NB: I won't allow you to be stupid and push the corner of the board.

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On Wed, 28 Jan 2004 10:24:07 -0500, "George"

it ain't the body of the blade that's gonna bite ya- it's the teeth on the backside of the cut- those ones that aren't supposed to be cutting at all, the ones rising up out of the saw with all of the vengeance of that 3HP TEFC 220V power behind them and curling around and spitting straight at your face.
you really don't want those teeth rubbing on *either* side of the cut. splitters, riving knife, whatever- use it. and keep the blade aligned with the fence. dead parallel is my preference, but heel it out a few thou if it tickles you. just never let it pinch.

seems you didn't understand the thread too well.

huh?
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Precisely.
Glad you and I concur.
Maybe you should re-read the thread and decide who you want to chide.

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George wrote:

Really? I've ripped wood that wishboned out behind the blade and I've ripped wood that "X"ed behind the blade. I've ripped wood that one side of the cut curled up and some that curled down. Even though you may start with a nice flat board with straight edges and square corners, there can be all kinds of locked up stresses and strains in it which can be released when ripped. The results can be quite surprising. I've got a riving knife that wraps around the back top quarter of the blade as insurance. I often use the Draw-Tite magnetic hold downs/ hold ins as well and a GRRRIPPER for short pieces or narrow strip ripping.

I really hope Jason gets the wood-workers.com site back up. I had a whole section on all the factors I could think of that can contribute to a kickback and then what can be done to minimize the likelyhood of that happening. Some of the factors/parameters are not very obvious - until one of them makes you aware - nothing like a scar to remind one of things not to ever do again.
An example of a less than obvious kickback type - earlier someone posted a message about his push stick kicking back into the palm of his hand. It had sharp corners at the top - a quick and dirty scrap push stick. Those corners lead to six or eight stitches. If the handle had been big and nicely rounded he might have had a bruised, sore hand - but no blood loss or possible nerve damage.

I guess you meant to say "For purposes of this discussion, I won't allow you to be stupid ...". I reserve the right to be as stupid as I choose to be and nobody's gonna take that god-given, constitutional right away from ME! :) <-- winking emoticon to indicate the writer is just kidding.
charlie b
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George wrote:

I think you've misread the point I was making. Here's the set up.
Table saw has fence out of parallel to the blade by 1/64" over it's length.
The operator is pushing a piece of wood against the fence (from the operator's side) and into the whirring blade.
As the wood passes the blade it is still being held against the fence (from the operator's side) and will be held against the fence for the entire cut.
When the wood exits the back side of the whirring blade the freshly cut edge to the fence side is indeed not rubbing against the teeth of the blade.
The other side of the kerf, the side without the fence, is now rubbing against the teeth.
I'm unsure how else to say it without the aid of chalk.

If you are running wood between a turning router bit and a fence you've either got balls the size of church bells or the brain of a gnat.
UA100
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