Which gauges for TS alignment ?

Got any slop between your miter slot and the bar they provide for it? If so are you checking that the blade is parallel to the miter slot or the slop in the bar?

The TS-Aligner has three bearing that ride in the miter slot, two fixed and one adjustable left/right. Eliminates ALL the slop. It can be configured for other set up functions and the dial gauge provided ain't no cheopo.

I need all my imagination for coming up with furniture ideas and how to make them. Set ups are not my favorite thing to do and making tools in order to do the set ups is a waste of time - for me.

About that slop thing?

I seriously doubt that you'd have one helluva a lot more versative tool. Check out the TS-Aligner info a bit more.

Oh Ed's gonna get you now. I assure you that the comparison would be more like comparing a craftsman contractor's saw to a Unisaw or PM66 - with a sliding table. Make that a Felder.

Sometime in the near future I'm sure Ed Bennett's going to respond to your uniformed description of his fine product.

I think the responses have been unanimous - the TS-Aligner is a great set up tool at a fair price for what it does and how it does it. I must've missed the post by a dissatisfied customer.

charlie b

Reply to
charlie b
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Reply to
Mark

Well I would have to agree with Larry and Mark. I set mine up with a good sliding t square and a piece of perfectly flat acrylic 4" x 10" with a 5/8" hole dead on center. Acrylic was free, I have a good square already along with the bit to drill the hole. Although it could be done with the blade on I'm sure. I set the fence the same way, ran a board, and measured with three different steel rules, all accurate with each other. Results were dead on accurate. I then borrowed my neighbors Junior, and guess what? The end result was within .003. I don't think that's too bad. As a matter of fact, it's livable. It netted a complete kitchen, bedroom suite, dressing room furniture...the list goes on. Just my nickel's worth, take it as it is. BTW, my shop is an all Ridgid shop, with an occasional Craftsman, or Crapsman, tool thrown in for good measure! ;-)

Reply to
Jerry Gilreath

Got any slop between your miter slot and you miter gauge? I've never seen one that didn't. This fascination with thousandths of an inch when working with wood is laughable. An engineer analyzes the problem and determines a reasonable degree of accuracy necessary in his calculations and doesn't waste time or energy or money to achieve unnecessary accuracy.

I do appreciate that it is fun and "neato", but lets recognize that that is all it is. I once calculated pi to over 10,000 digits. It was fun but completely unnecessary. I could calculate the diameter of the universe to less than an inch using pi with just 30 decimal places.

Reply to
Bruce

On Sat, 24 Jan 2004 15:01:30 -0800, charlie b brought forth from the murky depths:

It can be (somewhat) adjusted out with the holddown bolt. ;)

Hey, who said that?

One could also simply cut a piece of wood, grab their dial calipers,and check variation front to back. That's what I did to originally set up Dina's old cast arn fence to within a couple thou. Paper shims aren't fancy but they do the job.

Now that I think about it, the spring-loaded indicator should pretty much take care of that. Yes, the TSA would be quite a bit nicer, but not $150 nicer to me. (Them's -crowbar- figgers, son!)

So what if it isn't? You're making -relative- measurements, not looking for interference fits in tenths here. (Within an RCH is fine with me. You?) You could do just as well with a bar and a set of feeler gauges IF you know what to look for and how to set it up.

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Reply to
Larry Jaques

I checked the web site. Good gods man, $140 for that thing? Hell, I have combinations of power tools that don't add up to that much.

I guess that makes me a bottom feeder.

Reply to
Silvan

Bruce,

While there may be slop between the miter gauge and the miter slot there is little to none between the slot and the TS-Aligner. Further there is none measurable between a good fence and the blade. The benefit of the TS-Aligner to me is that with it I can set my blade very accurately with respect to the miter slot and therefore my fence.

I can work to 0.001 with my setup after aligning with the TS-Aligner. (Humidity changes not considered.)

Much of good woodworking, if thoroughly thought out, is based more on precision than accuracy.

RB

Bruce wrote:

Reply to
RB

I understand this.

I realize that. If one expects 0.001 accuracy with a miter gauge, obviously they are whacked.

As can I with a dial indicator clamped to my miter gauge and steady pressure applied to the miter gauge to keep it to one side of the slot, which is all the mechanism in the TS Aligner does.

I don't see that you addressed my larger question about the necessity of having the fence and the blade parallel to 0.001" Especially in light of the fact that most manufactururers recommend a 1/64" or 0.0156" heel in the fence.

Reply to
Bruce

I was on my 2nd tablesaw (bench to contractor) before I had any feeler gages. I still don't have a Starrett. ;-) Might as well get the Normite aligner instead of the Neander, right?

-- Mark

Reply to
Mark Jerde

I'd like to point out that the combination square doesn't even have to be a GOOD one. Just about any combination square that holds it's blade tight will do fine, it dosen't have to be square. In fact, you can perform the same technique with two wood scraps and two screws. In truth, even the feeler gauges are optional. If you don't have a Sharpie, a dot of masking tape, nail polish, or pencil will also work.

All you're trying to do is ensure that the miter slot is parallel to the blade. You do this by ensuring that one tooth is the same distance from the slot at the front of the blade's rotation, and again at the back.

FWIW, I touch my $65 Starrett square every time I make a 90 or 45 degree mark, every time I adjust the cutting height of a tool, every time I set a blade or fence back to 90, etc... While a high-end blade alignment tool will probably do a wonderful job, how often will you really use it?

I feel that these devices, as accurate as they are, are often over hyped by magazines and at woodworking shows. They seem to be a boon for someone who is actually comparing out of the box specs, as a reviewer would need to do. The reviewer would also need to provide actual numbers for comparison, which I really don't need.

If anyone wishes to explain to me what I'm missing, I'm all ears!

Barry

Reply to
B a r r y B u r k e J r .

Ed won't get him, he is too busy workin 18 hour days trying to keep up with the demand to bother readin a news group. I have the Jr and ordered the upgrade to Deluxe a while back but am still waiting, got an email from him that he is way behind and trying to catch up.

I have the Jr and use it where I can and it saves time for me. there is no guess work about it being square and accurate as I would have with a home made jig. I have medium priced tools that can be made to work better than "out of the box" by using a setup tool.

money well spent.

BRuce

charlie b wrote:

Reply to
BRuce

Imported dial indicators and so cheap nowadays it's hard to argue not to have one for the $10-15 or so they cost, but really, to set up a tablesaw you need nothing more than a good combination square. I use a DI myself but got equally good results when I only used the combo square in he past. Some people get good results just using a piece of wood clamped to the miter gauge. See any good tablesaw book for details, I like Kelly Mehlers book.

Now, if you really need to know to "how many thousandths" your saw is adjusted, you will need the indicator and some type of fixture to hold it, either shop made or something like the TS Aligner by Ed Bennet. But if you just want to set up your saw to cut wood, you don't really need to know the numbers.

FWIW, I don't own one myself, but the TS Aligner Jr is probably one of the better buys if you want to purchase something.

Reply to
Lawrence Wasserman

I don't see the need for the blade and fence to diverge by 1/64". They certainly shouldn't have negative heel but being parallel (or 0.001 divergent) is fine for me. Along with this statement is the one that says use feather boards and/or something like a RipStrate.

RB

Bruce wrote:

Reply to
RB

It's an anti-kickback measure from the days before splitters and pawls.

If you - horrors - don't use a guard for your cuts, it's a good idea.

Reply to
George

The idea is to get the already cut edge away from the rising side of the blade, preventing the board from being lifted and kicked back.

Barry

Reply to
B a r r y B u r k e J r .

How many decades ago was this?

UA100

Reply to
Unisaw A100

B a r r y B u r k e J r .

And so what about the other side of the kerf, the one that's being pushed (by the operator) against the side of the blade?

UA100

Reply to
Unisaw A100

My relatively uneducated guess would be that the other side of the blade has nothing to hold the wood against the blade. As I understand it, the lift is only part one of a kick back. Part deux is trapping the lifted / turned board between the fence and the rising blade, giving more for the blade to grab.

We all know what happens next!

Barry

Reply to
B a r r y B u r k e J r .

B a r r y B u r k e J r .

But it does. The operator is holding the wood against the fence. The fence is out one end to the next (1) by 1/64th. By holding the wood against the fence the operator has unwittingly set himself up to have the wood pressed against the blade on the "non-fence" side of the cut. All this is going on with a fence purposely mis-aligned? (question mark used to emphasize why anyone would do something so foolish)

Anyone want to check my math on this?

And by forcing the wood against the blade (from either side of the kerf) we have set Part one into motion.

Purple?

(1) I hope it's 1/64" over the length of the fence and not over the length of the exposed portion of the blade. "That" would be really stoopid.

Just say (tmPL), if you are that concerned about a kick back then do yourself a favor and install/make a splitter. If that doesn't keep your undies dry then consider a short fence for rip cuts.

UA100

Reply to
Unisaw A100

I agree. Note that I didn't say I did it, only what the common thinking was. I also believe they're talking the length of the fence.

I tune my fences with wood. It's simple and it works for me. Starting with the fence exactly parallel to the miter slot, I rip a board. I then check the board and waste for burn and blade marks and adjust accordingly.

Works for me, others have other methods.

Biesemeyer says they'll have a snap-in splitter for my saw "soon", I can't stand the stock version.

Barry

Reply to
B a r r y B u r k e J r .

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