When You Start Out As A Carpenter...

[bridger]

that is your kit today. how much of it did you have the first day you walked on to a carpentry job? how about the 30th day?

[Lowell Holmes]

The first day, A shiny new nail apron, a shiny new hammer, a shiny new . . .

The second day, a shiny new smashed thumb... :-)

Maybe a Craftsman saw , probably all the shiny new tools were Craftsman.

[Andy Dingley]

A marking gauge. That's a joiner's tool, not a carpenter's.

IMHO, joinery takes place in woirkshops, with workbenches and planes. Carpentry is the stuff you do on-site, without a bench and without truing stock up beforehand.

The carpentry I do is timber framing (big hairy-assed stuff). That involves cutting lots of mortices. Now a joiner might well use a marking gauge to lay out a mortice, but a timber framer never should (although many do). You can't trust that your timber is straight or square, so instead you mark a datum line down the centre of the beam with your chalk line (or I prefer an ink line) and then you mark off from that with a square, rather than a marking gauge from an edge.

Using valid joinery techniques in conditions that don't allow them (unprepared stock) is a common sign of the bad and ignorant carpenter.

[Swingman]

A well put mouthfull ... amply illustrated by my efforts in the past, and once again yesterday, to do what I consider "carpentry", the results of which somehow always falls way below my original expectations.

The prospective purchaser with a contract on a new home I just finished wanted some shelves in the garage as part of the contract. Since there was some leftover pine shelving material still on site, since I would rather be busy with something than not, holiday weekend or no, and since it needed to be done ASAP, I thought I'd get a jump on the situation and built the shelving myself yesterday morning.

Although much of the saving in labor costs will go in my pocket, I will once again Endeavour to keep in mind that I need to stick to cabinets and furniture. Either that, or learn to go into the rapid-fire-nailgun, slap-it up-quickly-then-head-to-the-cantina mode that suffices for "carpentry" around these parts.

Not to mention the tendency toward "Babbage's Disease", that inflicts a furniture/cabinet maker who attempts "carpentry".

[Tom Watson]

That's gotta be the heaviest nail apron going.

I was responding to a question about what my first boss expected me to carry in the apron at all times.

He called us carpenters but we were at best, carpenter's helpers; trying to make the transition from laborers.

Within a month or so I'd cobbled up a set of sawhorses and a tote, spent about a whole paycheck on a Rockwell 315 "Circle Saw" (sic), and never really stopped buying tools until a bit less than two years ago, when I gave it up to be a clip board jockey.

Tom Watson - WoodDorker tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (email)

(website)

[Luigi Zanasi]

On Sat, 03 Sep 2005 02:24:48 -0500, Prometheus scribbled:

Whaddayaneed the square for? Just lay your pencil at an angle at the right spot, with your middle finger on the edge of the board, and slide it along. :-)

Luigi Replace "nonet" with "yukonomics" for real email address

[Tom Watson]

The "Difference" is in the "Engine" that appears to drive the project.

Neither enjoys "The Luxury Of Perfection" if time is an issue - and when is it ever not?

I started as a carpenter and went towards cabinetmaking from there. The "Difference" is a matter of degree, or tolerances - but the "Engine" is the same, so long as it is described within the approriate tolerances.

Like me, you are an OTD (Older Than Dirt) to the current crop, and our standards are informed by both history and practicality. These Standards, the "Engine" that drives the project to its final result, must be adjusted to the tolerances needed for the task at hand.

You've been building stuff long enough to know what a set of shelves for a garage should look like - you just gotta let yourself relax and not try to gild that lily too much.

I know it's hard but remember the good counsel of generations of master builders who have gone before, "We ain't building a Church today - let's move it along."

watson - who still suffers from intermittent bouts of Babbage's Disease but finds that a decent glass at the end of the day moderates the post partum depression that inevitably accompanies a project that ain't exactly butched - but ain't no hall of famer, neither.

Tom Watson - WoodDorker tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (email)

(website)

[jo4hn]

Tom Watson wrote: [snip]>

So what all do you carry now? And what do you carry it in? curioso, ju4an

[nailshooter41]

trying to make the transition from laborers.

Within a month or so I'd cobbled up a set of sawhorses and a tote, spent about a whole paycheck on a Rockwell 315 "Circle Saw" (sic)

[Tom Watson]

I didn't go for the case but that is still the best 7-1/4 that I ever owned. Some idiot helper used it to cut flashing channels into masonry, all day - because, "It was an old saw".

I didn't fire him, but that was about the time that I decided to go back to working by myself.

The 315 was Fubarred.

I didn't even get inside where I could use a broom for about two months. All I did was dig and backfill and carry block and mix and carry mortar. I was actually happy when I got to go inside and run a broom.

I used to fall asleep to the Mantra, "21 shovels of Sand, 7 shovels of Portland, 1 shovel of Lime - Pull the box 3 times - be careful with the water".

The happiest day of my life was when I had become too valuable to be sent for coffee. That was before Self Esteem was even invented.

watson - who still winces when he sees 12" solids.

Tom Watson - WoodDorker tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (email)

(website)

[Swingman]

yep... hear that? That's the sound of a nail, hit dead center. lol

Now that you mention it, the sun's over the yardarm here, I'm headed for the showers ...

... you definitely have a way with words and wood, brother.

[Tom Watson]

This wasn't used for a chalk line. It was used to make marks on items that were going to be cut out.

Let's say that you are fitting a solid backed vanity to a wall. The chalk would be rubbed onto the pipe that stuck out the most and then the cabinet would be set against the pipe. The chalk left on the back of the vanity would mark the outline of the pipe, or close enough to cut it within the limits of the escutcheon.

Then you worked your way back.

It was also used to rub on the edge of a scribed line to see how the fit needed to be adjusted.

Tom Watson - WoodDorker tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (email)

(website)

[Norman D. Crow]

Knowledge and experience, in his "hat rack".

[Norman D. Crow]

Do you use wood pins to hold the M & T's together?

[Robatoy]

[snip]

WTF??? Somebody finally post your bail?

[Rick M]

Nah ... the ice finally broke up for the Sprin errr Summer.

[Mark & Juanita]

Nah, summer finally made it to the Northern Tundra and he is just getting defrosted. Unfortunately, the week of summer is almost over and he's headed back to the icebox soon. ;-)

+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+ If you're gonna be dumb, you better be tough +--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+

[bridgerfafc]

interesting. I wonder when that fell by the wayside. I guess I have seen that chalk for sale, once or twice, but rarely, for sure. I learned fitting with transfer color as a carver, usually using china white or prussian blue. the few times I've been called to fit with transfer color as a carpenter I've improvised with whatever is at hand- often keel, but I have used stick chalk and even sharpie. I've even used carbon paper. heh, that'll date me...

[nailshooter41]

Tom Watson wrote:

[hylourgos]

Oh yeah, we probably all have one of those stories from our initial botched experiments. Mine was building a gate frame to the backyard fence at my very first house. I'd just purchased my first router, so for the joinery on the frame I tried 1/2" dovetail joints on the pressure treated 2x4s. Two dovetails per joint, if I remember. Man, that thing twisted all to hell and back, even with the faceboards nailed on. I eventually had so much iron bracketing holding it together that it sagged into the ground from the weight of the brackets, screws and nails.

It would be embarrassing, but it's just too funny now.

H