It seems that winter is really starting to set in, and since my shop space ( read that as " about 2/3 of a single car garage") is unheated except for a small space heater I turn on when I am actually in the shop, I was wondering how cold is to cold, will the glue set up right in cooler temps, should I bring a glue up indoors to cure? ( I would think the temperature and humidity swings would do more harm than good ) and would the same apply to finishing a project, will the finish dry right, should I bring it inside to dry....how cold is too cold?....
When the snow starts building up against the door to the shop so you can't open it or the fire in the woodstove freezes... Then its too cold to work out in the shop.
On Thu, 4 Dec 2003 22:32:13 -0500, "solarman" scribbled
I just came up from the gara^H^H^H^Hshop to check out the wreck as I just finished cutting a bunch of mortises. I did manage to screw one up, arghh! It's a pretty warm -15 degrees (5 degrees Fahrenheit, Keith) outside right now. I disagree with solarman, and I know about cold. I live in North America's coldest area - the Yukon - and I can testify that woodstove fires do not freeze. Also, if you can't get in the shop, just shovel the snow off. Sheesh! :-)
So, it's never too cold to work in the shop. My shop is only partially insulated. I use a bathroom fan and some 4" ducting to blow warm air into the shop from the furnace room, which gets too hot anyway. That keeps the shop above a toasty 0 degrees (32 Fahrenheit, Keith). When it gets really cold (like 30-40 below zero), or if I want things heated up in a hurry, I use a propane radiant heater that attaches directly to a tank. The rest of time, I use one or two small electric ceramic heaters. My insulated coveralls and felt-lined hunting boots are nice. My hands don't usually get cold, so I don't wear gloves.
For glue-ups, I've used three different strategies, as the instruction on the bottles require temperatures above 15 degrees (59 Fahrenheit, Keith):
Bring them inside the house.
Remove the clamps after an hour or so and bring inside the house.
Leave them on the bench, put an electric heater under the bench. The heater is plugged into an extension cord to which I have connected an electric heating thermostat. The thermostat hangs below the bench, away from the heater. Cover the whole thing with a tarp & go to bed.
#3 is also used for finishes.
Glues and finishes stay inside the house when not in use.
Luigi Replace "no" with "yk" for real email address
Starting? I'm looking at a good six inches of snow, and it's only early December.
I know there are people in other parts of the world laughing at the notion that I would consider six inches a lot of snow. Well, I don't, really, but it's not so much this snowfall as what it represents. Another long damn winter of hoping I can continue to say I've never experienced a jacknife. More gray hair. Kids going to school until June. Sigh.
All I have for heat are a pair of 1500W space heaters. I can run one full tilt and one at half wattage without tripping the breaker on the only circuit I put out there, so long as I remember to turn them off before using any machinery. (So *that*'s why everybody suggests putting lighting on a separate circuit. Sigh.)
I haven't really seen a *cold* day yet, so it's hard to say how effective they will be as winter progresses. Whatever temperature it was yesterday (probably somewhere in the 30s) I never managed to get the shop what you'd call comfortable. I let the heaters run for a good while, then dialed the thermostats back until they just cut off, to get them to hold pretty much the highest temperature they could realistically sustain without running continuously.
At the end of the day, when I rolled them back to the lowest setting for the "anti-freeze" mode, I only moved the dial a fraction of an inch before hitting the stop. They couldn't hope to come remotely close to bringing the space up to the temperatures suggested by all those unattainable higher settings on the dial.
Today, it was colder, and snowing. I set one for the max (on the end of my workbench, up on a piece of granite), and left the other (on the floor near the table saw) in "anti-freeze" mode. The "anti-freeze" heater never cut off all day, and with the two of them doing their best, I never saw 50 in the shop. With nothing close to insulation, I expected at least the snow on the roof would melt as a testament to how much heat I was throwing away. It's unfazed.
Titebond says that both glue and parts have to be above 50. I did a glue-up at 50, and while it set up, it just doesn't look normal. I think the strength of these joints has probably been compromised (they need only minimal strength anyway, so this is of no concern in this particular instance), and I think 60 is a more realistic minimum temperature target for glue-ups.
Shellac cures fine at 50 or below, but it seems to take longer to set up, and the evaporating alcohol really puts a chill in the air. Poly just won't cure at that temperature at all. I don't think lacquer will either. Paste wax takes a long time to develop a good haze, but it works at 50.
All things considered, I got my final project of the year to a state where I could do the final waxing and assembly stages in my den, and I closed up my shop. I just don't think I have enough heat to do anything useful out there this winter. Not when the temperature is much below 40 anyway. I will probably leave it closed until I get my lathe for Christmas. I'm hoping I can turn at temperatures much too cold for glue. Everything else is just going to have to wait until the weather warms up, or else I suck it up and buy some kind of propane heater that can put out some real BTUs.
Insulating the shop would help too, but that's a hard thing to justify since I don't expect it to remain standing all that much longer. The termites have done their work well, and it needs replacing. There's no A/C either, and insulation would just help keep it at 120 longer in the summer. Sigh.
Today was the first day off in a long time where I didn't spend at least half of it puttering in the shop. I think I will go nuts.
All snow and no shop makes Silvan a dull boy. All snow and no shop makes Silvan a dull boy. All snow and no shop makes Silvan a dull boy. All snow and no shop makes Silvan a dull boy. All snow and no shop makes Silvan a dull boy. All snow and no shop makes Silvan a dull boy. All snow and no shop makes Silvan a dull boy. All snow and no shop makes Silvan a dull boy. All snow and no shop makes Silvan a dull boy. All snow and no shop makes Silvan a dull boy. All snow and no shop makes Silvan a dull boy. All snow and no shop makes Silvan a dull boy. All snow and no shop makes Silvan a dull boy. All snow and no shop makes Silvan a dull boy. All snow and no shop makes Silvan a dull boy. All snow and no shop makes Silvan a dull boy. All snow and no shop makes Silvan a dull boy. All snow and no shop makes Silvan a dull boy. All snow and no shop makes Silvan a dull boy. All snow and no shop makes Silvan a dull boy. All snow and no shop makes Silvan a dull boy. All snow and no shop makes Silvan a dull boy. All snow and no shop makes Silvan a dull boy. All snow and no shop makes Silvan a dull boy. All snow and no shop makes Silvan a dull boy. All snow and no shop makes Silvan a dull boy. All snow and no shop makes Silvan a dull boy. All snow and no shop makes Silvan a dull boy. All snow and no shop makes Silvan a dull boy. All snow and no shop makes Silvan a dull boy. All snow and no shop makes Silvan a dull boy. All snow and no shop makes Silvan a dull boy. All snow and no shop makes Silvan a dull boy. All snow and no shop makes Silvan a dull boy. All snow and no shop makes Silvan a dull boy. All snow and no shop makes Silvan a dull boy.
The tried and true method for determining if it is too cold to work in your shop is a method I use all the time, as follows: Go to your table saw bend over and stick your tongue to the bed, if it sticks, its too cold if not go ahead.
Coming up on a string of 5-6 4 wheelers following a snowplow, all except me planning to exit with the plow, when Granny decides she doesn't want to stay in line and pulls over in front of me! I'm waltzing an empty 53 footer all over the snowy/icy bridge trying to chop down that 15-20 MPH speed difference when she decides maybe she WILL wait in line!!! )*(&^&*(%%$#%^$ Trucker behind asked if I learned that move in driving school(tractor close to inside wall, trailer *almost* scraping outside retaining wall)? I said "No, but I think I will pull over @ the top of the next hill & check my shorts!"
================= That is the dumbest way I ever heard of... tried it once and almost froze out in the shop because it was pure hell dragging the tablesaw up to the house with my tongue stuck to it because my hands could not reach any good points to get a grip.... NOW I just pick up one of my chisels ... IF it sticks to my tongue It is no problem walking into the house... NO PROBLEM AT ALL..
Actually I do have some glue ups to do today and it is 27 degrees and snowing outside now... in less then an hour my shop will be up to 65 (my prefered working temp) and I will be set to go... only question is I still have to check if I have gas in the snowblower ...
You've got my sympathy. Driving in MI on 131 about 30 years ago I had the trailer show up next to my window. Couldn't figure out who had the same load I was carrying around here or why their emblem was backwards. Tappped my Johnny brake and used the trailer to straighten us back out. Definitely check your shorts. Sorry you don't enjoy driving, I loved seeing this country go by, especially the northern and southern loops. Just the paperwork and idiots for problems, and you get that with any job. Dave in Fairfax
My shop in central Maine is unheated so far. Eventually it gets too cold to work in there, no matter how much I would like to.
A lot of stuff like gluing and painting stops below 50 Degree F. That stops a lot of my work right there. Below 30 I start noticing how everything in there is made of steel and is so damn cold I need to work with gloves. About that time the lights stop coming on and the batteries for my portable tools freeze. At this point I reluctantly close the door and go find something else to do until Spring.
I would think the glue is the least of your worries. If something is built and glued at a cold temp. once it is brought into the house, the wood will expand. This will result in joints loosening and possibly wood splitting. Think about it, it is recommended to have wood flooring in the environment for 48 hours before installation. If you build a bookshelf in a shop which is, lets say 60 degrees then bring it in your house which is 70 degrees. The wood will expand and possibly ruin your work.
Yes, but when you add chalked glue--which is what happens to PVA glue applied under about 60 deg. F.--you have a weak glue joint to add to extreme wood movement, almost a guarantee of a project that will quickly fall apart. And it makes no difference if you take warm glue out of the house: apply it to 45 deg. wood, and you get the same chalky looking glue joint, which will fail prematurely.
Charlie Self
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