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Tom Watson wrote:

There is a group of true experts with lots of experience in providing a truly simple, easy to use and understand user interface for those communicating in a public place to a remote facility. The data involved is more precious than mere votes, but it is all carried out with the complete confidence of the user community. I am, of course, talking about the horse racing betting community.     mahalo,     jo4hn
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<snipped 4 BW>>

Amazing how many miss the point. Tom maker of Fine sawdust and Thin shavings
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Origins lost, but there is indeed a difference with the "me" generation.:
According to today's regulators and bureaucrats, those of us who were kids in the 40's, 50's, 60's, 70's probably shouldn't have survived. Our baby cribs were covered with bright colored lead-based paint. We had no child proof lids on medicine bottles, doors or cabinets, and when we rode our bikes, we had no helmets. (not to mention the risks we took hitchhiking.) As children, we would ride in cars with no seat belts or air bags. Riding in the back of a pickup truck on a warm day was always a special treat, as well as sitting on the rear edge of the station wagon and hanging onto the roof. We drank water from the garden hose and not from a bottle. Horrors! We shared one soft drink with four friends, from one bottle, and no one actually died from this. We ate cupcakes, bread and butter, and drank soda pop with sugar in it, but we were never overweight because we were always outside playing. We would leave home in the morning and play all day, as long as we were back when the street lights came on. No one was able to reach us all day. No cell phones. Unthinkable! We would spend hours building our go-carts out of scraps and then rode down the hill, only to find out we forgot the brakes, after running into the bushes a few times, we learned to solve the problem. We did not have playstations, nintendo 64, x-boxes, no video games at all, no 99 channels on cable, video tape movies, surround sound, personal cell phones, personal computers, or internet chat rooms. We had friends! We went outside and found them. We fell out of trees, got cut and broke bones and teeth, and there were no lawsuits from these accidents. We made up games with sticks and tennis balls and ate worms, and although we re told it would happen, we did not put out very many eyes, nor did the worms live inside us forever. We rode bikes or walked to a friend's home and knocked on the door, or rang the bell or just walked in and talked to them. Little league had tryouts and not everyone made the team. Those who didn't had to learn to deal with disappointment. The idea of a parent bailing us out if we broke a law was unheard of.they actually sided with the law. Imagine that! This generation has produced some of the best risk-takers and problem solvers and inventors, ever. The past 50 years have been an explosion of innovation and new ideas. We had freedom, failure! Lure, success and responsibility, and we learned how to deal with it all.
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Greg Millen writes:
.>Origins lost, but there is indeed a difference with the "me" generation.:

I always wonder how my parents' generation, and their parents' generation, made it past 25. Hell, my grandfather (maternal) died in his early 70s--but from a mule kicking him in the head as he got ready for another day's work. I've got an aunt who will be 90 in February, and who is still in good condition, alert and ready to go. My wife's first mother-in-law is pushing 93, IIRC. She's not all that healthy, but she is alert.
Wrong diet, wrong surroundings, raised without electricity or running water, worked their butts off--I can remember one uncle stating (not complaining) that his father didn't really care for kids (he had 13 born live) until they were 8 or and could help on the farm, so the poor little kids had to actually WORK for their self-esteem.
Things change, as someone else said.
Charlie Self "It is inaccurate to say that I hate everything. I am strongly in favor of common sense, common honesty, and common decency. This makes me forever ineligible for public office." H. L. Mencken
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"Charlie Self" wrote in message

Yessir ... the shirt that I wore to the first day of school was made out of a flower sack, and the collar hung to the end of my shoulders, but my Sears Roebuck "Roy Rogers" sweat shirt, with the picture of Trigger reariing up, made the whole thing "uptown".
... and now my kids can't be clothed without Abercrombie and Fitch, or a trip to the Galleria.
My hat's off to anyone who, immediately after church, had to pick the feathers off the Sunday dinner ... can you imagine a kid having to do that to eat these days?
We were just too damn busy with living to get fat.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 11/06/04
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Naaaahhh! We did the chicken plucking Sat. night & let it "hang" overnight.
Flour sack towels! Split the side seams & hem them, stitch the top back together to make an "endless" towel hung over a dowel in a bracket. Just pull it around to a dry spot to use.
Got to pass on a personal story. I was about 6 or 7, Mom & I lived upstairs over Grandpa & Grandma. He had an "egg route" in Jamestown 3 days a week. Out back we had a good sized garden and a "brooder house" for chicks, plus 2 hen houses. Sometimes Gramp would let the chickens out in the Spring to pick in the back yard. Mom sent me down with a pan of potato peelings, etc. to give the chickens. I gave the stuff a fling to spread it around a little and turned to go back to the house . . .that dam*ed Rhode Island Red rooster went right up my back, scratching & clawing. I was screaming, Mom came down & beat him off with a broom. Few days later he did the same thing when I went in the henhouse to collect eggs. Gramp said to take big stick in and "discuss his behavior" with him. We had about three "discussions" and he decided he didn't want to bother me any more. He apparently transferred his "affections" to Gramp, because about a week later, I saw the carcass hanging under the back porch ceiling for dinner the next day.
He was tasty!
--
Nahmie
The law of intelligent tinkering: save all the parts.
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On 12 Nov 2004 09:31:38 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@aol.comnotforme (Charlie Self) calmly ranted:

Excellent discourse, Grogs; good followthrough, Charlie. I believe it was the hard work which saved them all, both physically and mentally, especially self-esteem.
This was gleaned from rec.crafts.metalworking and fits right in:
--snip-- As an explaination for the decline in the US's tech edge, James Niccol wrote "It used to be that the USA was pretty good at producing stuff teenaged boys could lose a finger or two playing with." --snip--
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Larry Jaques responds:

Even as chicken as I've always been, I've come close a time or six. And when I think of the set-up my grandfather had at his sawmill! Jeez, OSHA would have a green-eyed shit fit. Big old open circular blade (no replaceable tips in those days; sharpen with a file), on a belt from a stationary Model A (I think) engine. The only guards in those days were inside banks keeping an eye on the vaults.
Charlie Self "It is inaccurate to say that I hate everything. I am strongly in favor of common sense, common honesty, and common decency. This makes me forever ineligible for public office." H. L. Mencken
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On 12 Nov 2004 14:46:10 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@aol.comnotforme (Charlie Self) calmly ranted:

OSHA and Lawyers are 2 main reasons we have so MANY total idiots in our midst nowadays. Darwin woulda got 'em if OSHA hadn't taken all the fun out of machinery, etc.
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snipped-for-privacy@aol.comnotforme (Charlie Self) wrote in
<snip>

morning I wondered what my predecessors did, before aspirin and Advil?
Gave me a whole new appreciation for what they accomplished...
Patriarch
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On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 19:41:19 +1100, "Greg Millen"

And I used to ride mine helmet-less behind the DDT truck that used to spray every day in the summer to knock down the mosquito population.
Rode in huge white cloulds of the stuff as it spewed out of the back of that truck, because, you see...
I had a _mission._
Rode fast, rode lungs-pumping-to-the-bursting-point hard, 'cause when you're a seven-year-old Navy jet pilot swerving in and out of the clouds so you don't get shot down, that's just what you gotta do.
Damn the helmets _and_ the DDT. Full throttle.
Michael "Ace" Baglio
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calmly ranted:

Goodonya, Ace. We USAF kids used to chase the DDT-spraying skeeter fogger trucks on LRAFB back in the 60s. We'd stay in the mist until someone's mother came out and screamed at us.
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