What Would Heidegger Say About The Wreck?

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I'm not sure why but today I picked up my dusty dog-earred copy of Sein und Zeit by Martin Heidegger. Prolly haven't looked at it in earnest in thirty-some years.
In this book, Heidegger tries to explore the most fundamental concepts of Being. That would seem to be a dusty exercise in itself but Heidegger is fond of commonizing the language of experience, just before torturing the language in an attempt to explain its commonality.
He uses the example of a hammer.
To Heidegger, the hammer is a transparent instrument that only becomes apparent as itself when it fail to act as a hammer should.
You see, Heidegger thought that equipment should simply be a means to an end and not much fuss should be made about it. We use our tools to accomplish our projects, and it is these projects which give meaning to life. The only time that a tool should be brought under our scrutiny as an object with properties inherent to itself, rather than as a piece of instrumentality whose sole purpose is to further our projects - is when the tool fails.
I have to wonder how Heidegger would have thought about the Wreck.
We spend an inordinate amount of time going over the relative merits of this and that tool. Often this conversation is divorced from application. It is a Glass Bead Game.
To Heidegger, the tool only became apparent when it failed to do what needed to be done. The project was everything.
Maybe Heidegger would not have made out too well on the Wreck.
But I think he might have been a pretty good woodworker.
Regards, Tom. Thomas J. Watson-Cabinetmaker Gulph Mills, Pennsylvania http://users.snip.net/~tjwatson
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The only time that a tool should be brought under our

With this logic we would have to limit our discussion to craftsman and HF tools with the occasional dished table saw and out of square square.
-Jack (Humor aside, I think we do focus on the failures of tools - and their operators - more than anything else.)
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I haven't written a paper on Heidegger in quite a few years but I think that he would address your concerns thusly:
A POS tool, be it Craftsman, HF, or whatever, is only a tool, in the fullest sense, if it performs its function flawlessly.
That thing which is really a tool fades into the background of our thinking as we go about our task. If the tool draws attention to itself, we are alienated from our true purpose and the tool detracts from our experience as workers in pursuit of our task.
Unfortunately, I own a fair number of balky tools, which draw attention to themselves as tools by performing less than flawlessly.
When I watch someone like a Toshio Odate, or a Frank Klausz, there is no attention to the tool. The tool is a given. The work is everything.
I'm not saying that a craftsman does not give proper attention to the selection, purchase and maintenance of tools. My point is that too many get bogged down at that level and do not go on to the work at hand.
When I look at a Goddard-Townsend piece, I do not see the tooling but the result. In thinking about the tooling, I am often amazed at our alleged need for tools which were not available to these extraordinary creators.
It is the created thing that is important and the act of creation that is worthy.
My personal experience with tools that are not, in fact, tools, has led me back to neander land. At this level the tool is less of an issue in itself than at the level of more complex instruments.
I think it was my compressor that finally pissed me off.
Regards, Tom. Thomas J. Watson-Cabinetmaker Gulph Mills, Pennsylvania http://users.snip.net/~tjwatson
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On Fri, 03 Oct 2003 21:44:11 -0400, Tom Watson wrote:

Oh, maaaannnn - I just love my compressor, in fact my compressor is the Catherine Zeta-whats-her-name of my toolz.
-Doug
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By what you said Tom, a crappy tool is a bad tool because it causes us to focus on it. So if we cry once and get a good tool the first time, we use it to make projects and focus on projects themselves on not on the tool that prevents us from making the project. Sounds like my latest project and the problems caused by unsuitable tools.
--
Young Carpenter

"Violin playing and Woodworking are similar, it takes plenty of money,
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snip Tom Watson wrote:

Heidegger shows the willingness to plan out a project, the book and the thought that went into it, and so might have been a thoroughly competent woodworker if he had chosen to become one. However, the conversations we share about the merits of a tool versus a different one, tailed or not for example, and the different flavors of tool, LN, Veritas, Buck Bros, addresses something which he does not seem to appreciate. Both LN and Veritas make very nice planes, so do Steve Knight or C&W. All work properly and accomplish their purpose; to some degree, so does a planer. There is an aspect of feeling involved, though, that transcends purpose. This is not addresses in Heidegger's utilitarian view of the tools. A planer or a Buck Bros plane will never give the same feeling to the user that a fine plane will. No one makes bookmarks out of 2X4s for the joy of using their Delta 13" planer or Buck Bros smoothing plane. Anyone who owns a fine plane has shaved boards just for the feel and sound, no other purpose than pleasure. Heidegger might have been competent, he would never ahve been joyous. In fluffie passion, Dave in Fairfax
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No, you didn't!
You didn't *really* use those words in sequence, did you?
Kevin Retreating to fluffieland ...
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snip Kevin Craig wrote:

Yup I really did, with mallets a poor thoughts. Tongue planted firmly in cheek. I didn't get the sense of joy from Heidegger that Tom seems to have found, so I wanted to give a discordance to the thought. I first considered Anant, but what the Buck. <BSEG> It's possible, as Tom suggests, that Heidegger WOULD have been immersed in the making of the furniture/project but that IMHO dilutes the joy of using the tool itself by transferring the joy to the end of the journey rather than in the journey itself, which is what I was trying to suggest, but apparently failed to. As for Onanism, well, that's a personal choice, but I'd like to point out that Onan was framed, his crime was coitus interruptus, which is allowed by the church.
Dave in Fairfax
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. . . ? We were speaking of Onan?
Or are are you saying that Heidegger was just a big jerk-off?

Naw, his crime was disobeying God's order to give his dead brother children by knocking up his sister-in-law. The seed on the ground couldn't serve its purpose, and so Onan incurred the Big Wrath.
Kevin
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On Sat, 04 Oct 2003 01:27:33 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@fairfax.com wrote:

I resist the idea that he would not have been joyous. He would be joyous in the creation of the project that he had set out to build.
I further think that he would consider the production of shavings for the sake of the aesthetic pleasure involved in the creating of shavings to be a different project and somewhat onanistic.
This is not to diminish the project of the production of shavings. It is only to point out that it is not the same as making furniture.
The composer can take great joy and pleasure in his instrument. In fact, he is likely to demand an instrument that gives him pleasure in its use.
Sometimes the tenor of the Wreck is to laud the Bosendorfer at the expense of the music.
Regards, Tom. Thomas J. Watson-Cabinetmaker Gulph Mills, Pennsylvania http://users.snip.net/~tjwatson
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wrote: Snip

Yeah, but I'm not a furniture maker. I'm a woodworker. I think that's an important distiction. I'm not making end tables so that I have end tables. Hell, I could go buy them for probably less money and DEFINITELY less hassle. I'm building end tables to _build_ end tables. For me (and a lot of others, I suspect), woodworking isn't a destination. It's a journey.
I realize this is a bit off the original topic, but it headed this way.
-Phil Crow
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It's gotta be my twisted sense of humour, but I can't help thinking of Mony Python now...
The Philosopher's Song (Monty Python)
Immanuel Kant was a real pissant Who was very rarely stable. Heidegger, Heidegger was a boozy beggar Who could think you under the table. David Hume could out-consume Schopenhauer and Hegel, And Wittgenstein was a beery swine Who was just as schloshed as Schlegel. There's nothing Nietzsche couldn't teach ya 'Bout the raising of the wrist.
John Stuart Mill, of his own free will, On half a pint of shandy was particularly ill. Plato, they say, could stick it away Half a crate of whiskey every day. Aristotle, Aristotle was a bugger for the bottle, Hobbes was fond of his dram, And Rene Descartes was a drunken fart: "I drink, therefore I am" Yes, Socrates, himself, is particularly missed; A lovely little thinker but a bugger when he's pissed!

snip...
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wrote:

A careful reading of the Dialogues would show that Socrates was a bugger, pissed or not.
Regards, Tom. Thomas J. Watson-Cabinetmaker Gulph Mills, Pennsylvania http://users.snip.net/~tjwatson
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pixelated:

When in Rome, fella?
(well, Athens is close.)
.-. Life is short. Eat dessert first! --- http://diversify.com Comprehensive Website Development
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pixelated:

I would imagine his "how" to be "briefly." His "what" would most probably have taken much longer to explain, Tawmmy.

Bitchen blurfls be bloody booful, boy. What'd Heidi know?

But to others, life is a journey. End product is all well and good, but doing it/getting there is at LEAST half the fun.

He would have used pine/stain/poly, fer sher. That's his "commonality" for ya.
Apologies (or not) to Jums.
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wrote:

Where the hell is Jummy?
Regards, Tom Thomas J. Watson-Cabinetmaker Gulph Mills, Pennsylvania http://users.snip.net/~tjwatson
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On Sat, 04 Oct 2003 08:10:50 -0400, Tom Watson

You know him. He's probably off somewhere making those stunning pine cone turkeys to sell for the upcoming holidays.
.-. Life is short. Eat dessert first! --- http://diversify.com Comprehensive Website Development
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wrote:

I don't know...in a couple more days we should maybe start passing the hat for bail money.
Regards, Tom Thomas J. Watson-Cabinetmaker Gulph Mills, Pennsylvania http://users.snip.net/~tjwatson
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wrote:

You are encumbered by a literal understanding of the average everydayness of grammar. The "how" goes to the method of thought. the "what" is subservient to the "how".
Regards, Tom Thomas J. Watson-Cabinetmaker Gulph Mills, Pennsylvania http://users.snip.net/~tjwatson
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On Mon, 06 Oct 2003 18:51:41 -0400, Tom Watson

You bloody philo-poetic types indubitably derive my capra hircus.
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