What is it with yellow pine?

Page 2 of 5  
wrote:

Interesting. That may mean that 20 years ago when I did a renovation and needed a 12" x 9' strip worth of SYP to match my existing floor that I was taken -- they said they had to use recycled SYP. Material cost was $17/sq ft. IIRC. It does match well. -- Igor
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
igor wrote:

There is a lot of difference between the curent syp and the old growth that was available 100+ years ago. There are a few stands left, but many are in protected areas. During the drought a couple years ago one salesman offered the tall ship I was helping on some that was being harvested from normally swampy land that was inacessible, unless you wanted to leave the equipment behind, in the mud. Our donation fell through so someone else got to play with some really nice stuff. Joe
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
igor wrote:

To get a <precise> match to old virgin growth, yes...
There's precious little of that left, just as there are few stands of eastern hardwoods. But, by judicial selection, you could probably have gotten almost as near a match from a recent selection that would in a relatively short period of time be virtually indistinguishable.
What's really hard to match is the finer grain more typical of old-growth as so much now is commercially grown w/ added nutrients, etc., so that growth is much faster. This promotes larger growth ring spacing and somewhat softer lumber.
The other thing is, of course, just like w/ other lumber, the size of trees when harvested are no longer near what the old-growth timber was. Our barn dates back to just after WWI w/ all framing SYP. There are any number of 2x8 and larger of 16 to 20 ft lengths w/o a knot in them. Now you couldn't find an 8 ft 2x4.
(As a comparison, in the early 60s we built a set of grain bins and a small feed mill in the back corner of this same barn. There's still some left over framing from that in the haymow. It was Doug fir, not SYP, but there are about 20 pieces of 20-ft 2x6's of which only one has a knot....I hate to think what it would take to buy that material now... :)
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Not necessarily...it depends on how good a match you wanted. SYP has very pronounced grain, and modern lumber has much more widely spaced annual rings than the slow growing stuff of old.
The sub-species known as Dade county pine is no longer cut for lumber, incidently, and that may be true of some other sub-species. Old-growth Dade county pine is harder than nails.
John
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
SYP flooring is still widely available and still used a LOT. They must cut millions of feet of SYP every single day.
The "good stuff" is culled out very quickly and sold at premium prices off shore of here. You can still find good heartwood from selected dealers but it's tougher to find since the folks in Europe and other places really like SYP.
What we get is #2 or worse and most of that ends up in 2x6 decking or even 5/4" decking boards.
Anything of real value is exported cause of the prices.
Recycled is being used a LOT but how much recylced do you think there is ???
I suspect "most" homes that are over 50 years old have SYP in the flooring system.(East of Mississippi)
igor wrote:

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

If your 45 plane "slides over the top" then your blade is dull. A well sharpened blade will cut no matter how hard the wood is.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
They cut really thin curlies in anything else (well, I haven't tried aged oak, yet), so I think they are pretty sharp (SCARYied, just before use on this piece--and during<G>). It has to do with the angle of attack, and the wood itself--plane geometry<G>.
George noticed that I mentioned it was CCA--does the metallic content of the tx have anything to do with the hardness, or is this just badass wood? (BTW, I know that SYP is hard; my query was to reasons for this characteristic. Resins, age, tx? Combination? I'm gonna find a different board.
Dan
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

We have a northern non-pine that is similar to SYP - it's called Tamarack, and it has most of the bad qualities that SYP has in the way of excessive resin - which was _not_ set in drying, because you can't do that when you treat it. It has a high SG, even though it's one of the fastest-growing trees that grows here for the first 25 years , and barely capable of being dented. Great mine lagging.
I suppose everyone knows what rosin is, and what it's used for? Then there's aged rosin - amber, I think they call it.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Yellow pine is a low altitude growing conifer. Extended growing seasons and warmer weather allows the tree to produce denser fibers with more resin. There are several different species that fall under the broad classification of "yellow pine". Contrary to some of the posts I've read in this thread, yellow pine is abundant and obtaining "clear" material is still relatively easy to do. It just depends on where you live. I live in Texas and sell framing lumber for a living. It's real common to get 2x12-24' boards with nary a knot mixed in with a bundle of #2. Nobody is taking the time anymore to separate it out. Here it's just cheap framing material.
Interesting fact, the reason YP warps and twists so much is due to the tree rotating as much as 360 degrees as it grows each and every year.

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
mel wrote:

the tree

I have to ask what you mean by 'the tree rotating as much as 360 degrees/year'. Do you mean that if I mark a brank that is pointing north and come back six months later that same branch may be pointing south?
There are a number of trees, especially tropical exotics where the grain grows in a spiral around the trunk and reverses dirtection (clockwise or counter-closkwise) every other year or something like that. But the whole friggin tree spinnin like a top? That's a bit much to swallow.
--

FF


Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Friday 28 Jan 2005 6:51 pm, snipped-for-privacy@spamcop.net scribbled:

After forest fires, I see many spruce and pines (with bark burnt off) where the grain clearly goes around in a spiral.
--
Luigi
Replace "nonet" with "yukonomics" for real email
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
new growth rotates

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
mel wrote:

What does that mean? I was confused by your previous explanation, too...
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
sighhhh.... the tip of each limb grows in a spiral pattern as length is added to the limb. if you are still confused just forget I brought it up

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
mel wrote:

Forget it mel. Some people just don't know anything about plant growth are too unobservant to realize that cells are fixed in position and that new growth may be at an angle to the old cells. There are still people that believe branches move up from the ground as the tree grows. Good grief! don't they every look at the trees that grow around them. If they have enough experience to type here, they are old enough o have been around the same tree for many years.
And no, it didn't bother me that you mixed up genus and specie, we all make mistakes. Your "error" was that you contradicted what many were saying about the availability of clear wood. Shame on you. We all know that we are in a mess with fewer trees, the fish, ducks, elk, deer, etc. are dying, endangered by global warming, rising seas, massive climatic changes, greatest natural disasters ever, the greatest loss of species in the history of the world, etc. etc.
Sorry for dumping, but people are SO predictable (and stupid).
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
"George E. Cawthon" wrote:

OK, that I knew...not what I thought you said, is all...
And George, chill... ;)
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
snipped from George's post-"We all know that we are in a mess with fewer trees, the fish, ducks, elk, deer, etc. are dying,"
now I'm just getting hungry
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

I don't know about where you guys are, but here in PA we have FAAAAAR too many deer. There are many more than 100 years ago. There are several thousand "interactions" between deer and vehicles each year. We also have an over abundance of geese fouling (ha!) up fields, yards golf courses, etc. Don't know about elk, but fish seem abundant hereabouts as do trees.
Dave Hall a proud member of PETA (yeah, that one, not the one that thinks animals should have more rights than people)
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
David Hall wrote:

Umm... did you note the sarcasm? Keep the ducks, I take a nice T-Bone of bovine or second choice of grain fed elk.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Dave Hall responds:

And Canada geese. One local town--Saltville, I want to say--tried to enact an ordnance allowing consecutive Saturday shotgun hunting of the damned things, but the animal lovers won again. They are lovely birds, but when you get mulstiple thousands flocking to one small town to feed and nest, it does get messy.
Deer are a problem throughout the parts of Virginia that don't border on Bullshit City (DC, for those not in the know). That's most of the parts. I don't know what the figures are, but I do know I'd get at least 10,000 more miles per set of tires if we had the same number now as we had 30 years.
I recall years ago having to come to a stop for a flock of wild turkeys: my mother, a native Virginian, was with me, and told me that they'd been almost extinct within the state when she left home for nursing school in '28. But in '88, the flocks on back roads were large enough to stop traffic--not that there was, or is, much to stop.
Charlie Self "They want the federal government controlling Social Security like it's some kind of federal program." George W. Bush, St. Charles, Missouri, November 2, 2000
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Related Threads

    HomeOwnersHub.com is a website for homeowners and building and maintenance pros. It is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.