Interesting. That may mean that 20 years ago when I did a renovation and
needed a 12" x 9' strip worth of SYP to match my existing floor that I was
taken -- they said they had to use recycled SYP. Material cost was $17/sq
ft. IIRC. It does match well. -- Igor
There is a lot of difference between the curent syp and the old
growth that was available 100+ years ago. There are a few stands
left, but many are in protected areas. During the drought a
couple years ago one salesman offered the tall ship I was helping
on some that was being harvested from normally swampy land that
was inacessible, unless you wanted to leave the equipment behind,
in the mud. Our donation fell through so someone else got to play
with some really nice stuff.
To get a <precise> match to old virgin growth, yes...
There's precious little of that left, just as there are few stands of
eastern hardwoods. But, by judicial selection, you could probably have
gotten almost as near a match from a recent selection that would in a
relatively short period of time be virtually indistinguishable.
What's really hard to match is the finer grain more typical of
old-growth as so much now is commercially grown w/ added nutrients,
etc., so that growth is much faster. This promotes larger growth ring
spacing and somewhat softer lumber.
The other thing is, of course, just like w/ other lumber, the size of
trees when harvested are no longer near what the old-growth timber was.
Our barn dates back to just after WWI w/ all framing SYP. There are any
number of 2x8 and larger of 16 to 20 ft lengths w/o a knot in them. Now
you couldn't find an 8 ft 2x4.
(As a comparison, in the early 60s we built a set of grain bins and a
small feed mill in the back corner of this same barn. There's still
some left over framing from that in the haymow. It was Doug fir, not
SYP, but there are about 20 pieces of 20-ft 2x6's of which only one has
a knot....I hate to think what it would take to buy that material now...
Not necessarily...it depends on how good a match you wanted. SYP
has very pronounced grain, and modern lumber has much more widely
spaced annual rings than the slow growing stuff of old.
The sub-species known as Dade county pine is no longer cut for
lumber, incidently, and that may be true of some other sub-species.
Old-growth Dade county pine is harder than nails.
SYP flooring is still widely available and still used
a LOT. They must cut millions of feet of SYP every
The "good stuff" is culled out very quickly and sold
at premium prices off shore of here. You can still find
good heartwood from selected dealers but it's tougher to
find since the folks in Europe and other places really like
What we get is #2 or worse and most of that ends up
in 2x6 decking or even 5/4" decking boards.
Anything of real value is exported cause of the prices.
Recycled is being used a LOT but how much recylced do you
think there is ???
I suspect "most" homes that are over 50 years old have SYP
in the flooring system.(East of Mississippi)
They cut really thin curlies in anything else (well, I haven't tried
aged oak, yet), so I think they are pretty sharp (SCARYied, just before
use on this piece--and during<G>). It has to do with the angle of
attack, and the wood itself--plane geometry<G>.
George noticed that I mentioned it was CCA--does the metallic content
of the tx have anything to do with the hardness, or is this just badass
wood? (BTW, I know that SYP is hard; my query was to reasons for this
characteristic. Resins, age, tx? Combination?
I'm gonna find a different board.
We have a northern non-pine that is similar to SYP - it's called Tamarack,
and it has most of the bad qualities that SYP has in the way of excessive
resin - which was _not_ set in drying, because you can't do that when you
treat it. It has a high SG, even though it's one of the fastest-growing
trees that grows here for the first 25 years , and barely capable of being
dented. Great mine lagging.
I suppose everyone knows what rosin is, and what it's used for? Then
there's aged rosin - amber, I think they call it.
Yellow pine is a low altitude growing conifer. Extended growing seasons and
warmer weather allows the tree to produce denser fibers with more resin.
There are several different species that fall under the broad classification
of "yellow pine". Contrary to some of the posts I've read in this thread,
yellow pine is abundant and obtaining "clear" material is still relatively
easy to do. It just depends on where you live. I live in Texas and sell
framing lumber for a living. It's real common to get 2x12-24' boards with
nary a knot mixed in with a bundle of #2. Nobody is taking the time anymore
to separate it out. Here it's just cheap framing material.
Interesting fact, the reason YP warps and twists so much is due to the tree
rotating as much as 360 degrees as it grows each and every year.
I have to ask what you mean by 'the tree rotating as much as 360
degrees/year'. Do you mean that if I mark a brank that is pointing
north and come back six months later that same branch may be pointing
There are a number of trees, especially tropical exotics where the
grain grows in a spiral around the trunk and reverses dirtection
(clockwise or counter-closkwise) every other year or something like
that. But the whole friggin tree spinnin like a top? That's
a bit much to swallow.
Forget it mel. Some people just don't know anything about
plant growth are too unobservant to realize that cells are
fixed in position and that new growth may be at an angle to
the old cells. There are still people that believe branches
move up from the ground as the tree grows. Good grief!
don't they every look at the trees that grow around them. If
they have enough experience to type here, they are old
enough o have been around the same tree for many years.
And no, it didn't bother me that you mixed up genus and
specie, we all make mistakes. Your "error" was that you
contradicted what many were saying about the availability of
clear wood. Shame on you. We all know that we are in a
mess with fewer trees, the fish, ducks, elk, deer, etc. are
dying, endangered by global warming, rising seas, massive
climatic changes, greatest natural disasters ever, the
greatest loss of species in the history of the world, etc.
Sorry for dumping, but people are SO predictable (and stupid).
I don't know about where you guys are, but here in PA we have FAAAAAR too many
deer. There are many more than 100 years ago. There are several thousand
"interactions" between deer and vehicles each year. We also have an over
abundance of geese fouling (ha!) up fields, yards golf courses, etc. Don't know
about elk, but fish seem abundant hereabouts as do trees.
a proud member of PETA (yeah, that one, not the one that thinks animals should
have more rights than people)
And Canada geese. One local town--Saltville, I want to say--tried to enact an
ordnance allowing consecutive Saturday shotgun hunting of the damned things,
but the animal lovers won again. They are lovely birds, but when you get
mulstiple thousands flocking to one small town to feed and nest, it does get
Deer are a problem throughout the parts of Virginia that don't border on
Bullshit City (DC, for those not in the know). That's most of the parts. I
don't know what the figures are, but I do know I'd get at least 10,000 more
miles per set of tires if we had the same number now as we had 30 years.
I recall years ago having to come to a stop for a flock of wild turkeys: my
mother, a native Virginian, was with me, and told me that they'd been almost
extinct within the state when she left home for nursing school in '28. But in
'88, the flocks on back roads were large enough to stop traffic--not that there
was, or is, much to stop.
"They want the federal government controlling Social Security like it's some
kind of federal program." George W. Bush, St. Charles, Missouri, November 2,
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