What is it with yellow pine?

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I've be trying to flatten a short piece of yellow pine 2x12 CCA that I've had around for a while and just found the use of. I didn't think it would be too tough a job.
Not having a power planer I've been working on it with a #5, and a #4 (both recently tuned up and sharp) but the only thing that cuts it is my low angle block plane. This stuff is like planing marble--the 45% planes just slide over the top. The low angle cuts pretty well, but leaves a choppy surface.
Anybody here know why yellow pine gets so frekkin' hard? I'm gonna haf ta find another board.
Dan
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Umm because yellow pine is hard compared to many woods and many woods naturally get harder as dry out and age.
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Leon wrote:

Where is this yellow pine from? Are you taking about Pinus Ponderosa commonly known as yellow pine? If so, I don't know what you mean by hard? I'm in the northwest and have used lots of yellow pine. About the only thing softer is cedar and redwood. Must be talking about some other species.
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I bet he is talking about SYP. It gets so hard you can't drive a nail in it.
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George Cawthon responds:

SYP, AKA southern yellow pine, has zip to do with Ponderosa pine. Mostly found from Jersey's Pine Barrens on south to Georgia, it is a highly figured wood, the hardest U.S. pine, hardens with age, and is a royal PITA to work. SYP that is CCA treated doesn't dry out until it's been in place 103 years, or so it sometimes seems.
On the Janka hardness scale, long leaf SYP is 870. Cherry is 950.
Charlie Self "They want the federal government controlling Social Security like it's some kind of federal program." George W. Bush, St. Charles, Missouri, November 2, 2000
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Pinus Ponderosa is technically a yellow pine and is often called Western Yellow Pine hence his confusion but I suspect you probably already knew this.
Southern Yellow pine is most commonly comprised of 4 different genus. Pinus Palustris (Longleaf)and Pinus Enchinta (Shortleaf) are the 2 genus that every keeps referring to as "old growth". Today, Pinus Taeda (Loblolly) and Pinus Elliottii (Slash) are the most common for managed forests due to the hardiness and growth rate. This is the explanation for differing grain in today's yellow pine vs. yesteryear's. Granted accelerated growth due to introduced nutrients and forestry management has played some part but these 2 genus simply grow faster in the first place.
Did you know that most "softwoods" grown at lower altitudes will be harder (denser) than at higher altitudes, yet most "hardwoods" will be the exact opposite?

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Thanks for the scientific names and discussion, Mel. As I explained none of my books mention SYP, which apparently is an industry and mill designation. Unfortunately that is fairly common, and common names often are useless to a non regional person. In the west, yellow pine is Pinus ponderosa, red fir is actually Douglas fir, white fir can be several species and Tamarack is most often used for and larch is most often called Tamarack.
Nope didn't know that about altitude and hardness. High success in regeneration of burned or logged areas does depend on using seeds produced at an altitude similar to the area seeded. Lots of fudge factor there but altitude differences of 3,000 or so feet are obvious.
mel wrote:

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*** The other way round. Also, add "ring-porous" before "hardwoods"
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feel here is not to make you look bad, Mel, but to educate everyone else, and I just can't resist it.

same genus, /Pinus/. I'd also like to point out that the plural of "genus" is "genera."
*** Quite, also the lower case, but: Pinus enchinta ---> correct to _Pinus echinata_ echinatus = "prickly", "like a hedgehog" Pinus pallustris ---> correct to _Pinus palustris_ palustris = "from the swamp"
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Charlie Self wrote:

I've kind of figured P. ponderosa is not what the discussion is about. However, none of my books on wood and trees, and I have several, mention southern yellow pine. The problem with common names is they are often indefinite and confusing. And syp, seems to be a rather regional designation. More at response to Mel. Thanks.
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Good grief. You're sitting in front of a reference library. ANY search engine would have flashed SYP in your face if you looked for pine lumber, pine classification, or similar. It is a woodworkers' and wood producers' designation.
FWIW, my 1949 _ TREES Yearbook of Agriculture_ lists the species indicated as southern yellow pines.
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George wrote:

Your criticism is probably justified. However, lots of stuff on the Internet is pure BS and I don't search everything. And you are right, I already figured it was a wood producers term. Too bad everyone can get on board with species.
I think I have that Yearbook somewhere, at least I have looked at it in libraries and it was great. There are some great older Yearbooks of Agriculture. Unfortunately some of the later ones were worthless, notably those produced during Jimmy Carter's administration. Apparently some idiot with a media degree got involved instead of those with an Ag or science degree.
I still say it is a regional thing. Not everyone lives in the east or the southeast.
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news:mIXJd.95181>>

Southern Yellow Pine. SYP.
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Read a little about SYP..aka: southern yellow pine
http://www.southernpine.com /
George E. Cawthon wrote:

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snipped-for-privacy@gte.net wrote:

...
...
All the resin and, depending on the board, some has a fairly tight grain compared to many other pines.
Out to try working w/ virgin growth SYP of roughly 100 years age! :)
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wrote:

Am I the only one who noticed the "CCA" in this original post?
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George wrote:

No...
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Cause it's really tough wood. SYP is the king of softwoods and you ain't met the tough stuff yet....
Older homes with SYP heart wood will bring tears to your eyes when you jump on them with cutting tools.
You gotta be from the south to really understand SYP.
We got plenty...you want some more ????
snipped-for-privacy@gte.net wrote:

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wrote:

I thought that the SYP that was used in old flooring (maybe 75-125 years ago) is no longer commercially available except as recycled? (I have some in my 90 year old house.) Is that species still being cut? -- Igor
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igor wrote:

Oh, lordy, yes...almost all pressure-treated is SYP....it is now farmed commercially in all the SE.
And it was used (and still is although not presently as popular) for flooring, siding, etc.
I've even seen some as moulding in the Borg since white pine and similar species are now so expensive.
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