What is it? CXLV

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The camera doesn't issue the citation.... OK I know what you mean. But it would be interesting to get an email informing you of the fine on your 3G mobile before you cleared the intersection...
It depends on your local traffic laws... ie what constitutes illegally entering an intersection. Here in Australia it's illegal to enter after the light goes red, and also illegal to enter if you can't clear the intersection, ie if it's blocked by stationary cars waiting to exit. Red light cameras will get you for either.
--
Patrick Hamlyn posting from Perth, Western Australia
Windsurfing capital of the Southern Hemisphere
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Wayne Weedon said:
<snip>

If you drive at or below the speed limit *all the time*, which is a legal requirement anyway in the UK, then you don't have to worry about speed cameras even a little bit.
--
Richard Heathfield
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29/7/1999
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Richard Heathfield wrote:

Exactly why NEVER has one of these things has ever given me a fine !
I can still disagree with them on principal though, I do believe they have been used as a source of revenue, and seem to be excempt from normal planning requirements.
Wayne...
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Wayne Weedon said:

Actually, I just thought of why you *do* have to worry about them. Not the usual ones, the "whoa! you just redlined me! you're nicked, chummy" kind, but the kind that hang around in little gangs strung out along the road, and photograph *every* car, twice or more, so that they can average your speed over a given distance. These have serious implications for civil liberties, as they can be used to identify and record people's travel patterns, even though no offence has been committed. For the same reason, we should be very concerned by the plans to fingerprint all schoolchildren. (This is already underway in the UK.)
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Richard Heathfield
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29/7/1999
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On Sat, 25 Nov 2006 17:06:04 +0000, Richard Heathfield

I also understand that spray paint and paintball splatter are only a few ways that those cameras are vandalized on a regular basis in the UK..not to mention those chained and torn out by the roots.
Seems some Brits still have their nads <G> ' Gunner
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A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical liberal minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.
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Richard Heathfield wrote:

Another reason Richard is the number of drivers who panic brake when ever they see one, one not far away was involved in a multiple death RTI...
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On Sat, 25 Nov 2006 15:05:52 +0000, Richard Heathfield

Ummmmm... What color is the sun on your native planet?
Speed Limits are set by morons - always have been, always will.
The Traffic engineers try to use a rationale like they're setting them at "the 85th Percentile of the average traffic flow on that stretch of road" or other nonsense, but plain and simple they're guessing. Drivers will drive at a speed they feel is safe for the conditions at the moment, and each driver has a different idea of what constitutes 'safe' (some of which are nonsensical or ignore certain hazards in their estimate), which creates an instant conflict.
Too low in many places, too high in others - you have to know to look out for blind intersections, people pulling out (or worse, backing out) of blind driveways without looking, people pulling out from curb parking without looking - on both sides, which covers the U-Turn from a standing start at the curb.
We have a stretch of secondary road that was posted for 30 MPH for several decades, to get around the defacto residential limit of 25 MPH when unposted. Then they put in killer speed-bumps you have to slow to 10 MPH to clear without damage - and left the 30 MPH signs posted...
Then you get to the open highways and the restricted-access freeways and turnpikes, where there is no cross-traffic, they're fenced off so no stray animals, broad shoulders, proper grading and drainage... And some moron in the Legislature decides that we have to save fuel, so we'll set the limits artificially low to force you to.
--<< Bruce >>--
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Bruce L. Bergman said:

Yellow, last time I checked.

Nevertheless, laws are broken by criminals - always have been, always will.

In the UK, the rules are pretty simple - national speed limit applies unless overturned by local signage. National speed limits are: 30 in a built-up area, otherwise 60 for single-carriageway and 70 for dual-carriageway. Slight variations apply for various kinds of vehicle (e.g. lorries are 50 and 60 rather than 60 and 70), and drivers of those vehicles are required to know the variations.

That's why absolute limits are imposed, but these are limits, not targets. If local conditions (e.g. rain, blind corner, some idiot walking in the middle of the road, whatever) mean that it is not safe to drive at 30 in a 30 zone, then it's the driver's responsibility to be aware of this and to drive at a safe speed.

Yes. This is called "driving with due care and attention", and driving /without/ due care and attention is an offence, in the UK at least.

The speed limit is not there to protect your suspension. That's your problem. The speed limit is there to discourage you from wrapping your vehicle around trees, lamp-posts, Saabs, six-year-old children, and so on.

We get the government we deserve, alas.
--
Richard Heathfield
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On Sat, 25 Nov 2006 17:53:01 +0000, Richard Heathfield wrote:

And by lumping people who disregard an arbitrary number painted on a piece of metal with the thieves and murderers you discredit the whole legal process.

In other words they have nothing whatsoever to do with the appropriate speed for the road in question and everything to do with the convenience of politicians.

By setting limits the government is substituting its own judgment for that of the man on the spot. 8 lane highway, well lighted, 2 AM, not a car in sight, why should one limit oneself to 60 MPH just to satisfy some bureaucrat?

That should be the offense, not "offending some bureaucrat by second guessing his judgment as to the maximum safe speed on a particular stretch of road".

If the bureaucrats want a 10 MPH speed limit they should establish one, not circumvent the democratic process by putting in obstructions.

Actually we get interlocking constituencies and the squeaky wheel. It's far easier to get up a lobby _for_ some piece of legislation than it is to get one up _against_ some piece of legislation.
--
--John
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J. Clarke said:

The legal process doesn't have any credibility whatsoever, which is why it requires police officers to enforce it. Everybody knows the law is stupid, but breaking it is rarely a good strategy.
[Speed limits]

That's right, but it still makes sense to observe them by driving at or below them.
<snip>

No, the law requires the man on the spot to show good judgement, *and* the law requires the man on the spot to observe the speed limit.

It's to do with the thickness of your wallet. Trust me on this. :-(

The one is (at least in part) a polite way of saying the other.

So tell your political representative that you require him to get legislation passed removing the speed bumps. If enough people do the same, the law will change through the democratic process. But they won't. You know they won't. Even though you're likely to have a majority of people agreeing with you. This is just Yet Another Sign that "the democratic process" doesn't work.

Fine, so get up a lobby *for* passing a law that requires the replacement of all speed bumps with, say, pedestrian crossings or something.
--
Richard Heathfield
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29/7/1999
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"J. Clarke" wrote:

AIUI the Germans have a more intelligent system on the Autobahn. They concentrate on unsafe driving habits, such as tailgating, or failure to keep right, combined with careful initial licensing provisions. I also understand that the resultant statistics confirm the efficacy of this.
--
Chuck F (cbfalconer at maineline dot net)
Available for consulting/temporary embedded and systems.
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On Sat, 25 Nov 2006 20:06:36 -0500, CBFalconer wrote:

In 1995 the Congress rescinded the National Maximum Speed Limit and in Montana the speed limit reverted to "reasonable and prudent". There was a decline in fatalities each year that that was in effect. In 1999 the Montana legislature for whatever reason chose to implement a 75 MPH speed limit. The result was a doubling in fatalities.
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wrote:

Bingo. They made it "Reasonable and Prudent" during daylight hours, and 75 at night AIUI. That made everyone think about being reasonable and prudent while they were driving... And an officer can still bust people with that, but he has to make his case before the Judge.
Things that can easily knock down the limit are blind curves, upcoming ramps or interchanges, "Lane Ends Merge Left/Right" and other momentary changes in road conditions. You have to pay attention to the signs and the other cars around you.
If the drivers coming up on these types of hazards aren't at least off the gas and covering the brake, ready to react, and actively leaving holes for merging traffic and other courtesies, those omissions can easily be considered unsafe by a reasonable person.
But it's a lot easier to hand out drivers licenses to practically anyone with a pulse, and set artificially low speed limits to allegedly make it safe for them to be out there with those of us who take our driving seriously.
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Hey you guys,
How about doing a subject change so that those of us NOT interested in other than direct answers to Robs photo questions/answers don't have to wander through all this.
It's not hard to do. Honest!
Please????
Brian Lawson, Bothwell, Ontario.On Sun, 26 Nov 2006 08:33:35 GMT, Bruce L. Bergman

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On Sat, 25 Nov 2006 17:53:01 +0000, Richard Heathfield

... and when you put the wrong people in charge, you can turn anyone and everyone, by definition into a criminal.
[Moonbat bright idea: "I know, to save gas and lives, let's set the national speed limit to 35 MPH!" Moonbat legislature, "Great idea!". Reality, entire nation is turned into criminals (or idiots)]
... snip
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+ If you're gonna be dumb, you better be tough +--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
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Mark & Juanita said:
<snip>

Yes, and we *do* put the wrong people in charge.
The problem is that the right people never stand for office, or if they do, we as an electorate ignore them completely.
--
Richard Heathfield
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29/7/1999
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Can't argue with that.
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Hey you guys,
How about doing a subject change so that those of us NOT interested in other than direct answers to Robs photo questions/answers don't have to wander through all this.
It's not hard to do. Honest!
Please????
Brian Lawson, Bothwell, Ontario. XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
On Sat, 25 Nov 2006 23:23:50 -0600, "Henry St.Pierre"

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Bruce L. Bergman wrote:

Well some might, one city locally has a traffic planning engineer/manager that doesn't even have a driving licence, she however does have a degree.....
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On Sat, 25 Nov 2006 19:00:13 +0000, badger.badger wrote:

The traffic engineer if he's doing his job lets the drivers decide. He does a study, finds out the 85th percentile speed (or whatever the research showed--this was done in the '30s if I recall correctly and the purpose of the research was to figure out what speed limit produced the fewest accidents or fatalities--it's not a number somebody pulled out of his butt) and sets the limit there. If he's good then he does another study to see what the change in speed limit has done to the speed.
--
--John
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