What is it? CL

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On Mon, 01 Jan 2007 14:31:29 GMT, Jim Behning
... snip

Wow, had no idea they had gotten so expensive. Dad's is not self-propelled, it is a 2-wide by 4-high per level, seven level (56 bales per load) wagon. It was well over 35 years ago that he got it

We never had to stack our hay in barns. Colorado is dry enough that outside stacking is not an issue.

That's a fact
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+ If you're gonna be dumb, you better be tough +--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
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Bales came out of the baler via a simple chute that was suspended at the proper angle to clear the front of the wagon by a pair of chains. A man riding the wagon stacked them as the baler shoved them out. In most cases, a bale wagon had only a back, no sides or front.
Then, I believe it was John Deere that first came out with the idea of the bale thrower. The bales were about half the length of a regular bale and were commonly called "biscuit bales." (A full sized bale would break...) The thrower was a pair of arms with barbs at the ends that would engage the bale and the chute out of the baler was an appropriate segment of a circle. When the bale had emerged to the proper point, the mechanism was tripped and the arms swung about 75 degrees, lobbing the bale back into the wagon which had a high back and sides.
International Harvester responded with a bale thrower of its own. It consisted of a contrivance that had a pair of conveyor belts, top and bottom, about four feet long and powered by a separate gas engine. It was mounted on a pivot at the end of the bale box and a pair of ropes strung forward to the tractor allowed the operator to swing it from side to side to more uniformly load the wagon.
Jerry
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Massey-Ferguson rig, vintage 1969:
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http://www.lurndal.org/images/baler.jpg
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"Round bales" were introduced by New Holland by the 1950s.
"Square bales" dated back to horse-drawn equipment.
The "round bales" gained in popularity as worker availability fell: too big to handle by 1 person, they could not be collected and stacked by a group of cheap laborers the way that "square bales" could. With the passing of the cheap labor supply [Welfare paid better] and shifts in Tax Laws, it became cheaper to simply buy the added equipment to handle the "round bales".
While both are still available, "round bales" - due to their ease if distribution as cattle feed (they're simply unrolled) and weather resistance - have gained significantly in popularity.
Right now, I know quite a number of people who'd love to buy as much as they can - even at the exorbitant price being charged for the stuff.
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<snip>
<snip>
Not so. New Holland built square balers. The original round bale was about the size of a square bale and the balers that made them were built by Allis-Chalmers. Both had their advantages. The round bale was more impervious to weather and cattle tended to waste less (not caring for the sharp ends left by the knives of the square baler. The square bales were much easier to handle. A wagon was generally pulled behind the square baler and the bales loaded directly on it. The round baler dropped its bales on the ground which had to be picked up later. Square bales are far easier to stack. Etc.
Another issue was that many of the early square balers, specifically those built by John Deere, bound the bales with wire rather than twine. And, while baling wire came in very handy for fixing things, broken bits of it would end up in the hay and the cows would eat it. The result was known as "hardware disease" and the "cure" was to feed them a magnet.
Along with the rise of the very large round bales in the late 20th century, square bales also got bigger. The two string bales, weighing about 50 lbs, which one man could easily handle gave way in many places to the much larger three string bales which were more suited to mechanical handling. And so, today, the jumbo round bales are a common sight on cattle farms where the farmer grows his own hay. But hay that is grown to be trucked to feed lots and dairies many miles away tends to be put up as square bales.
Jerry, who observes that the expression, "haywire" seems to be vanishing from our collective vocabulary...
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In this area [Texas Gulf Coast] the round bales predominate - I haven't seen many trucks hauling square ones but LOTS of trucks hauling round ones - but I remember (well, if not fondly) walking beside trucks and heaving 3- tie square bales for a nickle a bale.
Good exercise, I was told.
The first round balers in this area were New Hollands that produced the large size currently in use.
FWIW, baling twine (and baling wire, for that matter) are still stocked - and used for their original purpose - around here. <grin>
I DO get a kick out of the people on RV newsgroups who simply wouldn't believe their eyes when being passed by a 1-ton dually pulling a goose-neck flatbed trailer with 15-20 3/4-ton round bales on board. (It's a frequent sight around here.)
As far as I can see, the single biggest advantage to the round bales is in ease of distribution: unroll it and feed many cattle at once.
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3-
goose-neck
As I recall, the big New Holland round baler came out sometime in the mid '70s, about 30 years after the 1947 Allis Chalmers round baler...
Jerry
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The local tractor dealer didn't sell AC - only Ford and New Holland - and the local farmers/ranchers were already debating the relative merits of square vs. round in the '50s.
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On Sat, 30 Dec 2006 16:12:40 GMT, "RAM"
<snip>

<snip>
There were small round bales a long time ago (~50's?) that only weighed ~60 lbs. They didn't stack well and thus weren't easy to wagon and move like similar square bales.
The farmer down the road from me doesn't even move these large round bales to feed them. They were place in rows about 8 feet equidistant with around 6 to a row. Large round gate type hoops* are placed over them (a row at a time) and a light electric fence is erected to prevent the cattle from getting to the remaining bales. Small x for bales, big X for bales with hoops. Little c are cattle.
Fence | -------------------------------------- x x x x x x x | X c c c | c c c x x x x x x x | X | c c x x x x x x x | X | c c x x x x x x x | X c c --------------------------------------
Use a fixed-pitch font for best display. Every few days they just reset the fence around new bales and move the hoops.
Of course with the wet winter we've been having the cattle are up to their knees in mud after a short time, but that is another story...
* The hoops used look similar to these:
http://hihog.com/feeders_panels/page11.html
--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
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Be thankful for the moisture - Oklahoma and Texas have been fighting drought...
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On Sat, 30 Dec 2006 21:36:58 GMT, "RAM"

The summer was hot and dry. The rains hit just as the farmers were trying to harvest/salvage what little grew...
The ground should be partial frozen and snow covered right now. Nothing is frozen, no snow, just rain and mud.
--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
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Round and square bales are still very common here in western Canada.
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CBFalconer wrote:

Not disappearing where I drive a lot (Idaho, Oregon, Nevada).. You see regular bales (60-80 pounds), big round ones(no plastic)(probably 600+ pounds) and the big square ones (probably 500+ pounds).
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George E. Cawthon wrote:

In Georgia we buy squares of Bermuda about 50# for a tight bale. Round 4x6 are about 1,000#. Some folks still use 5x5 balers at about the same weight. Weight of course depends on how tight they roll same as the square weight. I think some went to the 4x6 rollers so they would not get hassled by the DOT for wide loads when hauling hay. I buy 4 rolls at a time. I store them in the barn and move one with my little tractor. The horses eat the roll with no waste or next to no waste. They sleep in the hay as they pull it apart but our horses do not waste it. It helps if all your summer grasses have gone dormant so if they want to eat they better not poop in the hay. When we ran a boarding bard some of the horses were a bit stupid in that regard. No hoops around the bales.
Small squares are $5 and the large rounds are $55. The rounds are cheaper per ton. Last summers drought, diesel prices, army worms, and increased fertilizer costs have driven up prices. Not long ago rounds were $40 and squares could be bought for less than $3. Plus my regular hay farmer has no spare rounds to sell.
I have seen a lot of the big 4x4x8 square bales driving west to Colorado. I have never seen the big squares in Georgia. They may use it somewhere but I have never seen them advertised for sale in the Market Bulletin.
None of the half dozen farmers I have bought hay from bale in plastic wraps. I suspect in humid Georgia you risk a lot of mold and maybe fires wrapping in plastic. But I am not a hay farmer.
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Jim Behning wrote:

I really don't know what the big bales weigh. Looking back on my comment I should probably revise my estimate of weight quite a ways upward. And I don't know the actual size of the bales, the big square one are probably close to 4x4x8 foot and the big round ones are probably 5 to 7 foot in diameter and 8-10 foot long.
I can't imagine anyone wrapping a bale in plastic for normal over the year storage. The quality of the hay depends on the water content when bailed. Too much water and it molds and starts fires, too little water and the food value decreases. Outside hay stacks are often covered with tarps to keep the rain/snow from injecting too much moisture but the sides are also usually open to aid air circulation.
It is possible that bales could be wrapped in plastic for short term storage, transportation, or use.
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On Mon, 01 Jan 2007 02:27:22 GMT, "George E. Cawthon"

they are wrapped after innoculation with something to make silage. the mookers love the stuff.
Stealth Pilot
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Stealth Pilot wrote:

That's certainly not the way silage is made around here!
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R.H. wrote:

864 looks like a toaster. The weighted bottom would be so an arm could hold a piece of toast over a stove or a flask over a gas flame. The lower thumbscrew would be to slide it to a working height. The upper thumbscrew would be for small adjustments so that in one minute you would get the required heating.
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