What does sliding Miter Saw do over a non sliding saw

Page 3 of 4  


"Am I evil or stupid for stating my opinion?"

Bob McBreen.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
I use the fence with a 1" aux fence to set the length. when the board is cut, it is not in contact with either fence. that would be stupid. the aux fence is short and is placed towards the operator's end of the main fence. slide the work piece across the sled, up against the aux fence. move forward and then you clear the aux fence before the blade contacts the workplace. very elegant. quick. super accurate.
what I originally mentioned in this thread (to paraphrase myself) is that a non slider is more accurate than a slider, but not accurate enough for my tastes, except for less demanding work.
dave
dave
RWM wrote:

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

<SNIP>
OK, I understand now. At first I thought that you were using a crosscut sled with a stop block and didn't understand where the fence came in.
Bob McBreen
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

well you are using a 12" thin kerf blade what do you expect? try a 1) WW chopsaw blade a world of difference.
--
Knight-Toolworks & Custom Planes
Custom made wooden planes at reasonable prices
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
no argument there. i suspect the thin kerf to be much of the problem.
Steve Knight wrote:

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Bay Area Dave wrote...

You're standing by a foolish statement, then.

Why? He's not the one having problems. You are! Perhaps you should be trying to figure out why your saw doesn't work as well as his (and mine). You're obviously doing something wrong.

He wasn't talking about "feelings." He was relating his experience. He *tested* the two saws against each other. His experience is worth a lot more than your opinion, especially given *your* comparison:
<BAD>> I use a sled. By

You make a lot of mistakes here. Example 1: you use the Bies fence for cross-cutting. Either you don't know what you are doing, or you aren't explaining it properly. If you *are* using a stop block, then the fact that it's on a Bies fence means nothing. If you aren't, then you are inviting problems crosscutting with the fence on a tablesaw. Equal accuracy (and better, for longer stock) can be achieved with a stop block setup on the miter saw. Example 2: A "moving WWII"? In a tablesaw? Or are you talking about the fact that the blade rotates? Like the "80 Dewalt" doesn't? You just don't make sense. Example 3: You now have started comparing the blades, thus changing the topic. Example 4: You complain about not getting straight cuts, and blame it on the type of blade. You have misdiagnosed the problem. Either your blade is bad, or your saw is misaligned. But the problem is not attributable to the blade's thin kerf, nor to the fact that it is being used on a SCMS.
These things seriously jeopardize your credibility.
Jim
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
you didn't read the follow up posts. that will clear up your idea that I'm using the Bies incorrectly.
a moving blade--of course I mean moving laterally through the wood, as opposed to a CMS that comes straight down. NOT a slider - that is moving, akin to a TS.
so you see, Jimbo, I'm not QUITE as stupid as you surmised. you just didn't do your homework to check the other posts explaining in excruciating detail what I'd hope everyone could understand without me having to explain every last little thing. You assumed too much.
dave
Jim Wilson wrote:

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Bay Area Dave sez in one breath...

and in the next...

To belabor a minor point, what I said was that you either weren't doing it right OR not explaining it properly. So, the latter was the case. Fine.
However, you did manage to miss the gist of my post; perhaps it was only so clear as yours, Davebo?
Jim
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
I believe I may be infamous for being overly terse. I hate typing. hard to stay on the NG's w/o keyboarding, but I hate it nonetheless.
YOu are correct; I didn't explain sufficiently the first time. I shouldn't expect you to read between the lines. next time I'll try being a bit more forthcoming. (Just don't expect proper capitalization)
dave
Jim Wilson wrote:

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

my makita is as accurate as you are going to get with a good blade. I don't find the saw flexing at all. it blew away my delta chopsaws for accuracy and they were not sliders.
--
Knight-Toolworks & Custom Planes
Custom made wooden planes at reasonable prices
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Steve Knight responds:

Yeah, well, when I tested a bunch of these a couple years ago, I did find that you could more easily twist the handles on the sliders to force the cut off the proper line.
Given anything like proper technique, I found NO difference in the better quality sliders and non-sliders. The lower quality units weren't all that bad, but needed more care in handling and more frequent tuning (which isn't nearly as bad as tuning an RAS, because the slider mechanisms on the SCMSs are simpler).
I was able to twist every saw off its proper line, so a gentle hand and a straight downward pressure (in the direction of the line of the cut) is a real help with these tools.
Charlie Self
"Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfils the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things." Sir Winston Churchill
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Steve,
is that a 10" or 12" and thin kerf or standard?
dave
Steve Knight wrote:

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

10" and standard kerf. no need for a thin the saw has plenty of power. but it makes a difference in accuracy of cut between my freud 80t and my WW blade.
--
Knight-Toolworks & Custom Planes
Custom made wooden planes at reasonable prices
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Steve,
that's been my take on why I get bowed cuts on my 12" Dewalt--it's a skinny blade.
all of the Freud's at HD are thin kerf (all the ones in the store I was in last week). ever see a HD with a std kerf Freud?
dave
Steve Knight wrote:

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

even 1/8" kerf blades can flex.

just beak down and buy the woodworker chop saw blade it cuts so nice and does it faster too.
--
Knight-Toolworks & Custom Planes
Custom made wooden planes at reasonable prices
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
One thing to think about is clearance behind the saw. It will need to be farther away from the wall then a non-sliding saw. Otherwise, cutting capacity is the main difference.

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
I was the original poster........This was/is a remarkable post, I learned a lot, and laughed a lot, but I think all the information taught me to stick with my non-sliding ugly old MiterSaw. Many thanks to you all.......Peter

rollaway
sliding
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

I've had a 12" Dewalt SCMS (DW 708) for about three or four years. Before that I used an 8-1/2" Hitachi SCMS (C8FB2). Before that I used a 10" Makita Chop Saw. Before that I used a Stanley 5" Human Powered Mitre(sic) Box (358-A).
Properly set up they are all accurate but the SCMS has the edge on capacity. I do a fair amount of tallish baseboards and larger size crown moldings and the extra capacity is a great advantage in these situations. This is particularly true for the largest crown moldings, as they may be cut lying down on the SCMS.
The crosscut capacity of the SCMS is much greater than the CMS. I can rough cut a little over 20" in width on my Dewalt, by lifting the board and the blade (do not try this at home).
It is important to use a quality blade (do not use thin kerf blades) and to allow the blade to come up to full speed before bringing it into contact with the wood. Deciding where to start the cut depends on what you need to accomplish.
On pre-finished, wide flat work, or crown molding, where it must be cut with the good side up, I usually enter the piece slowly, back at the fence and pull towards me. Sometimes I will merely do a light scoring cut this way and then make the full depth cut on the push stroke. When the piece can be cut good side down I cut on the push. On smaller pieces of trim, that could be cut as you would with a chop saw, I push the blade into the cut, except in instances where a pre-finished top edge would make it better to cut as with a chop saw.
On both of the SCMS types that I have used, a good feature is the depth stop. I find this to be very useful in making dentil moldings, scoring the line for some dado and rabbets, and for the relief cuts that must be made to bend curved baseboards and such. To have this work properly you must pack out the fence so that the full diameter of the blade enters the piece all along the cut. (a two inch rip to pack out the fence on the DW708)
To come back to the consideration of accuracy; I've found the SCMS models that I've used to be plenty accurate for most trim work. I also get good square crosscuts when cutting 12" wide stock for bookcases. For very fine work, as in small moldings and small stock sizes, as might be used in jewelry boxes, etc., I use the SCMS to get me close and then finish up with a Lion Miter Trimmer.
A Dewalt DW708 goes for around $600 new and the price you quoted fits in with what I usually expect to get for used equipment in good condition (60% of current best price). This doesn't take into consideration the stand, or any other accessories, blades, etc. that may come with it.
If the saw is in good shape, you should wind up with an accurate, high-capacity tool for a fair price.
Regards, Tom Thomas J. Watson-Cabinetmaker Gulph Mills, Pennsylvania http://users.snip.net/~tjwatson
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
...so with all that sniping aside, can we summarize?
SCMS works. Is it fair to say that it requires a little more "tuning" due solely to the fact that it does more (back to my RAS analogy)?
Never having used one and thus have to rely on things I see on TV, does it have the depth stop that will effectively replace the RAS for most things (assuming one has a decent table saw to handle the things one can do on a RAS but probably shouldn't)?
Thanks for the "closure"
wrote:

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Tom Kohlman asks:

More tuning than what? A chop style? Not much, if any.

No. A good RAS will have a crosscut depth of 20+ inches. A good RAS can carry a 10" dado head. A good RAS can carry a molding head. The SCMS can do none of those things.
Of course, these days a good RAS costs in the neighborhood of $3000.
Charlie Self
"Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfils the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things." Sir Winston Churchill
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Site Timeline

Related Threads

    HomeOwnersHub.com is a website for homeowners and building and maintenance pros. It is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.