Sometimes I have to wonder about the economies of scale. How much extra per plane the customers keep is added to the cost because of the planes customers return because they're trashy (the planes are trashy, not the customers)? Would we pay an extra two bucks, or however much, per plane to reduce the crappiness? It is obvious SOME of us will pay considerably more, as evidenced by Veritas and Lie-Nielsen planes, where economies of scale must be much less.
But, then, the handplane market seems to have pretty well petered out, except for true enthusiasts, so the overall chances of increasing sales at a better quality point and a very few bucks more are probably not worth the bean counters' time.
True. And that's a major part of the reason that around the world, we see so many old, superb houses. The poorly built houses collapsed many years ago, just as the poorly made tools hit the trash bins early. The good stuff just keeps on keeping on.
Because only the good ones have survived. In 50 plus years they'll probably be asking the same question, however I fear there will be fewer good ones to survive. regards John
There are loads of high-end plane makers. However they're a small niche market, so you won't see them advertised widely. Read FWW, look at catalogues from the top toolshops, or just Google and you'll see them. Holtey, St James Bay, Steve Knight, Gordon (?) - the Australian guy with the Chinese pattern woodies.
Sadly many of these planes are just _too_ well made. Something like a Holtey is made to be perfect, because it's accepted that it's a purely decorative piece. I don't understand this desire - the desire to own the best and shiniest Norris plane ever made, when it isn't even a Norris.
The Norris A5 I use the most has a bent adjusting screw, because someone dropped it. It still works (just a bit stiff) and it still works as well as a Norris ought. However that damage probably knocks a couple of hundred off the "collectible" price of the thing. Oh dear.
I know people who use Holtey tools day-in, day-out (mainly luthiers) Interestingly though, they're nearly all using custom tools made specially for them by Holtey and the excess finish was never asked for or applied to them.
Clifton were produced by a well-respected UK hand tool retailer and a well-respected industrial toolmaker in partnership, intending to make simply the best bedrock-pattern iron-bodied plane they could. In all my experience with Cliftons, then they've been excellent.
That said, there are reports from some US users of build quality and accuracy being off. Whether this is just the flat earth society measuring the irrelevant, I don't know.
The Clifton "Victor" iron is one of my favourite irons and I use it in around half of my Stanley-pattern planes. It's not laminated, nor is it A2 steel, but as a "classic" heavyweight iron made from traditional steels it's the best around. I use laminated irons (Samurai or Sweetheartt) in my fine smoothers, but these in most of my bench planes. Much better than Hock. The Victor is very thick though. Retro-fitting it to old planes often needs some mouth opening, and some people might not want to do that to the rarer plane bodies.
Woof.
Depends what you're doing and what you're used to. They're a totally different shape to handle. I think you need to accept that, and use them for what they're best at. I haven't found a use for a Stanley transitional yet.
Most of my wooden planes are old moulding planes (couple of hundred). Many of these are worn-out pigs to use, but they cut a shape that I want. I've also got a mixed bag of weird planes, some of which I made myself, that are spindle rounders, chair seat hollowers and the like.
Next up are my Japanese planes. These work best when working on a Japanese-style bench, with Japanese-style timber. Not a great deal of use flattening an oak table, but the only thing for shaping an oval onto a sword scabbard made of lime.
European (ECE) woodies have the advantage of easy adjustment (better than the Stanley pattern) and light weight. I don't use these much, but one of these as a scrub plane is by far my most powerful non-powered plane for quickly rough-shaping timber. I plane barn beams with this when timber framing - I don't want to carry a Stanley around for that long.
My very best smoothers are either a Norris or a very good Stanley (both iron) or a couple of Steve Knight woodies.
Congratulations! Now do it very, very quickly. Then do some more, very, very quickly too. You'll be doing them quickly and not so well. Then you'll get better at them. IMHO you can't do a good one slowly and you certainly can't learn to do good ones slowly. Don't fiddle with them - that never works. Mark it out as crudely as you like, then saw it exactly in one pass (that "exact" thing takes a bit of work). It's all about whacking it with the saw, yet having the cut land exactly where you wanted it. It's certainly not about trimming to fit afterwards.
Cripes that's amazing! I even had an inkling of wonder about exactly those differences between then and now, and it evens out! But, look at the current prices of new stanley planes these days, far far cheaper.
I also collect fountain pens. You can easily make a $1000 fountain pen, with just one old guy in Vietnam and a pot of lacquer. If you have a really good idea, then you can change the $10 pen market overnight too. What you can't make an impact in is the $100 market. They need to be both superior, and mass-produced. Even the big names like Sheaffer and Parker have lost their way at this level.
Sad, but I'd bet the above no longer even enters the equation in today's topsy turvy, MBA tainted, business model.
Upper management remuneration, stock price, and employee benefits/perks appear to be foremost in current business philosophy, not product quality or service.
Whereas if the latter two are foremost, the first three seem to take care of themselves ... just ask Robin Lee.
Are you speaking of "Reformhobel", with screw adjustment? Normal continental european style (or at least german DIN plane style) is adjusted with the hammer.
screw adjuster (like the GTL planes) has a big advantage over Stanley of not having backlash in a fork lever.
I know the wedge system too, but those offer no advantage over old English planes that I can buy locally for pocket-change.
My best scrub plane is an ECE with a horn front handle, a hornbeam sole and wedge adjust. The iron is a '50s laminated Marples though - better than the standard irons, as I find those a bit thin and bendy.
Wow, the Norris sure is a unique-looking plane. But what I wouldn't give to hold one. I think I beginning to get the fever really bad now. I see you said you have a couple hundred, HUNDRED, moulding planes. I am beginning to understand how that can happen. I just want to buy everything I see!
Thanks for the tips on the dovetails. I tried what you said this afternoon: I made some joints really fast and you were right, they basically sucked. But I see the method in the madness. I need to do some more. Then some more! Thanks!!.
Ehhhh...I'd have to respectfully disagree. My house is 114 years old but it certainly isn't "superb."
2' x 6" floor joists over 14' or 16' spans...piers made from bricks and sand lime...the floors slope and slop like a rough day at sea...but I'll readiy admit it's "charming" and looks "lived in!"
Heh. Reminds me of the house I grew up in. It was a pretty standard farmhouse with a basically square floorplan, and the basement was divided in two halves with a wall from the front to the back. Then, on the first floor, there was a hallway down the middle from the front to the back, with walls on either side of it.
Now, those walls down the side of the hallway? As best I can tell, they were load-bearing.
So, the hallway floor, with the basement support going down the middle of it and the unsupported walls on either side of it holding up the upstairs, was crowned like a good road -- the middle was about two inches higher than the sides. (Someone had painted it black like a road, too. It was great for toy cars....) And the floors in the rooms all sloped down towards the hallway.
Actually, both my wife and myself abhor debt and neither of us are going to do anything to screw up the budget. We both spend money on our hobbies, but neither of us let it get out of hand.
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+ If you're gonna be dumb, you better be tough
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Take her out for dinner and drinks, and you've spent half the price of a great new plane.
OR get a big beach towel, a bottle of something sweet-smelling and smooth from Bath and Body Works and give her a candlelight rubdown. Odds are you'll not only save money toward the plane, you'll reap a short-term benefit as well ! Repeat as required.
Save your money. The good things about a Norris are the adjuster and the weight of the thing. You can get pretty much all the performance by buying a new Lee Valley. The Norris style adjuster is just a much better design than the Stanley style.
Just had a rough eyeball of them and it's about 130 that are real shaped moulding planes and a few dozens more that are various rounders (concave and convex), plain rebates, fillisters, and oddball carriage-maker's routers and the like.
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