Well, well, well. Another Cabinet Master feature.

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This (and part of a response) was posted on a woodworking forum today (Friday, 24 October) and presented here without further analysis:
When I clamp ceder (sic) with my new Jorgensen heavy duty clamps I find "oil spots" where the clamp pads had been pressing against the wood. The "oil" also has leached about 1/4 inch radially out from the clamping area. I have washed the pads with hot soapy water and then cleaned tham with acetone. This has reduced the oit (sic) spots but not completely stopped them from occuring. Has anyone had a similar proble (sic) and been able to resolve it?
One of the replies from a chemical engineer said, "My solution is to only use clamps with rigid plastic faces (Bessey K bodies for example) when clamping sensitive areas."
Note, this isn't me. I just reposted what someone else had posted.
LRod
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Sounds like a new urban legend in the making.
: : This (and part of a response) was posted on a woodworking forum today : (Friday, 24 October) and presented here without further analysis: : : When I clamp ceder (sic) with my new Jorgensen heavy duty clamps I : find "oil spots" where the clamp pads had been pressing against the : wood. The "oil" also has leached about 1/4 inch radially out from the : clamping area. I have washed the pads with hot soapy water and then : cleaned tham with acetone. This has reduced the oit (sic) spots but : not completely stopped them from occuring. Has anyone had a similar : proble (sic) and been able to resolve it? : : One of the replies from a chemical engineer said, "My solution is to : only use clamps with rigid plastic faces (Bessey K bodies for example) : when clamping sensitive areas." : : Note, this isn't me. I just reposted what someone else had posted. : : : LRod : : Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite : : Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999 : : http://www.woodbutcher.net
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What a coincidence! My cabinet masters infect the wood with ebola virus. I'm thinking of getting rid of them, but they are locked shut on my a** and I can't get them loose. They really suck. I won't even go into what happened when I used them on "sensitive areas"
-Jack

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snipped-for-privacy@removethispartpobox.com (LRod) wrote:

LRod, you seem to really have bug up your @33 about Cabinet Masters, but if this report is true, then I would agree that it falls into the category of design flaw rather than minor inconvenience. As I type this, I am testing one of my clamps, with a clean sheet of typing paper wrapped around a paperback book. Also have a pipe clamp on it, to see if any oil is coming from the paper in the book.
I'll report back.
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Alex
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wrote:
No, just the third party hyperbole about them. See my reply to Mike.
LRod
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After 9 hours, the CM and the pipe clamp (no pads) came off. The white typing paper showed no signs of stains, and when held up to bright light showed none of the enhanced translucence typical of oil or water on paper.
That's not to prove that no CMs or K-bodies have such a problem, but just that mine (more accurately, the one of mine that I tested) don't.
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Alex
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My guess is the "oil" is coming from the Cedar, not the clamp.
-- Bill Pounds http://www.bill.pounds.net/woodshop

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On Fri, 24 Oct 2003 19:16:16 GMT, "Pounds on Wood"
That was suggested in one of the replies in the original thread, however, two other posters mentioned the same thing had happened with maple. Not much oil in maple.
LRod
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snipped-for-privacy@removethispartpobox.com (LRod) wrote:

No, the other parties reported that the same thing had happened with after-market soft pads.
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Alex
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This is unbelievable. I have looked at your website, LRod, for a long time. I got a kick out of a lot of your stories and loved the stuff you've compiled about NYW. You're woodworking experience and advice has always been appreciated by me. But, the way you're pushing all this BS about these clamps, for no apparent rational reason is baffling. We're talking about clamps, for God's sake. It's not religion. I'm sure you won't give a rat's a$$ about it, but I wonder if you realize how bizarre you seem by "taking the fight to the Cabinet Masters".
You never even responding in the other thread about that link I posted regarding the possible "fatigue" problem with k-bodies. Anyway, enough time has been wasted on this topic, I think.
--
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There are a LOT of inquisitive idiots.
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On Fri, 24 Oct 2003 19:19:13 GMT, "Mike in Mystic"

Thank you. Seriously.

It does seem bizarre that a lot of people do seem to take it religiously. Actually, I'm kind of ambivalent about the CMs themselves, partly because I like my K-Bodies and have a lot of them, so I'm not even in the clamp market (which is to say I don't have a dog in this hunt, to quote the vernacular).
I think this all started when they first came out and some people got in a lather about how much better they were than K-Bodies (using some of the same arguments you did), when in fact, some of those "features" may not be anything more than marketing gimmicks. We've covered that subject elsewhere.
The thing that got to me was when people would carry on about the supposed (and undemonstrated) advantages AND talk about how they were much cheaper (when in fact they are only a couple of bucks cheaper). If they were priced by the pound then the CMs have it all over the Besseys. I have more than $1000 worth of K-Bodies. So I could have saved what? $60 by buying CMs (which weren't even on the market when I got the Besseys)? At two or four clamps per purchase, big deal.
Then the sticking head thing cropped up. And it wasn't just an early run of clamps, it wasn't a rare occurence, and it wasn't from mishandling. What it was, was unique to the CM design; K-Bodies don't do that. As far as I know, Gros-Stabils don't do that. The religious war part began when I pointed that out to people and you would think I had insulted their imam or something.

I checked the link. It was obvious that the site was a Gros-Stabil seller, thus rendering the "report" suspect. You acknowledged that when you posted the link.
In any event, as I said about the instance you alleged, there are thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of K-Bodies in use starting from maybe 15 years ago. So far, we have what? a couple of allegations that one or two MIGHT have failed.
Now contrast that with the much smaller sample of CMs extant with the incredible percentage of users having problems (not one or two users, but dozens; and not just the sticking head problem, either) and I think that "design flaw" is not too strong a word.
But let's leave "design flaw" out of it. How would you characterize a complaint rate of, say 10% vs a complaint rate of, say 0.001%? Massage the numbers however you want; make it 5% (half) vs 0.01% (X10) if it makes you feel better. THAT's the point.
As I said, Jorgensen/ACC makes some nice clamps. The CM may even have some interesting innovations, but to claim it is light years ahead of the K-Body, particularly given the reliability history, is, um, slavishly myopic. How's that?

I'm sorry my position offends you. However, I like pricking baloons, but okay. I won't post any more in this thread. You can have the last word. This is mine (in this thread, not necessarily on this subject).
LRod
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snipped-for-privacy@removethispartpobox.com (LRod) wrote:

You do a masterful job of hiding that ambivalence behind the gleeful trumpeting of any real or perceived problems with them.

Okay. I certainly agree that getting in a lather about how much better they are than K bodies is pretty silly. Both are nice products, and there are things that people might like about each. BFD. Sounds like you almost decided to counter-lather the latherer.

Why does it bother you if these features were perceived or real advantages to other people, even if they were not to you?

Yeah, I checked that out, and it is not just from mishandling. Can happen just by normal sliding shut. And can be avoided by leaving the screw turned in 1/2" or so, so that it can be fully backed out if they become stuck. I agree that better design should not require that, but I say BFD, particularly knowing that if I do fully back out the screw and get them stuck the screwdriver solution is still there.
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Alex
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wrote:

Bingo.
Add your name to the too-short list of people who get it.
LRod
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Um, is that paragraph what you are Bingoing? I don't think you were agreeing earlier that BOTH were nice products or acknowledged that there were legitimate reasons to like the CM clamps up until now maybe. Anyway, the K-Body owners have legitimate reasons to like their tools and the CM owners have legitimate reasons to like their tools. We should all respect each others reasons for choosing one product over another and not be so dead set with the idea that what is good for one individual is the absolute best for every one. Any way LRod, why don't we get back to focusing more of our energy towards solving problems and giving good advice.
BTY, on you pet peeve site, the first word "voila" ;~) I see that you were pointing out that the word actually starts out with a "V" sound vs. the "W" sound, but did you know that the " a" at the end of the word is a LONG "a"? Voila is actually pronounced vwa-lay. Thought you might appreciate that. ;~)
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Where I come from (S Louisiana) we pronounce it vw-'l when speaking French to each other (leave off your "y"). It is noteworthy that many of those educated in the last twenty years seem to prefer spelling it "viola".
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"viola".
I knew I was going to get something back on this.. ;~) I was using an internet site that verbally pronounces words so that you can hear how the word is pronounced. I think most people pronounce the la as like the note "la" as in do ra me fa so la.
Apparently.... The online dictionary breaks it out as you did with the 2 dots over the "a", which means the "a" should sound like the la or the "a" in father. Oddly, the verbal that you hear comes out vwa- lay.
My apologies to LRod and others for the bad information on this matter.
Thank you Swingman.. ;~)
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Even if they are not in the orchestra? <g>
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Alex
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Or worse yet, "wallah".
-- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)
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And actually spelled "voil". Either French has changed since I took it 30+ years ago, I was taught wrong, or you are wrong. I'm not sure which, but I'm betting on the third (but not betting big bucks, because I sucked as a French student!). Interestingly, an online dictionary pronounces it as you describe, even though their phonetic spelling of it shows the same vowel sound for the first and second syllable. And a French pronunciation guide I checked showed as being pronounce like the a in papa.
Maybe a native French speaker can chime in here?
--
Alex
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Thanks Alexy, Swingman has already pointed out my error and I probably used the same on line dictionary that you did. ;~(. It kinda contradicts it self . Shows one way and says another way.
I apologize again for the confusing information.
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