Water wheel wood?


What kind of wood for a water wheel, Cedar? It has to be non toxic, as I'll have fish in the water.
Also the pictures I've seen, seem to have the sides built of 4 larger pieces, ie. plywood. I can't see plywood holding up for long, even if it's marine plywood.
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Bill Stock wrote:

It will last if you seal it completely in a marine-grade epoxy finish.
Woods that shoudldhold up well in water include white (NOT red) oak, and hemlock.
--

FF


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ho about redwood ?
snipped-for-privacy@spamcop.net wrote:

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how about cypress?
wrote:

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Bill Stock wrote:
>What kind of wood for a water wheel, Cedar? It has to be non toxic, as >I'll > have fish in the water.
My first choice would be cypress using bronze hardware and resorcinol adhesive.
Lew
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Stands to reason. Oak was a favored wood for shipbuilding when they were made entirely from wood.

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Sun, Sep 10, 2006, 11:15am snipped-for-privacy@privacy.net (BillStock) doth query: What kind of wood for a water wheel, Cedar? It has to be non toxic, as I'll have fish in the water. Also the pictures I've seen, seem to have the sides built of 4 larger pieces, ie. plywood. I can't see plywood holding up for long, even if it's marine plywood.
If it's gonna be constantly wet pine'll work.
Plywood? If I was gonna make a wheel to do actual work I might well use plywood, but if it was just for purty, no. Hmm, probably wouldn't make one for purty even, if I was gonna make any "yard art" I'd rather make pukey yard ducks.
Actually, if I was gonna make a wheel for real work it'd probably have a steel frame, possibly with bolt-on wooden paddles - depending on what it would be used for.
JOAT I am not paranoid. I do not "think" people are after me. I "know" damn well they're after me.
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(Bill Stock) doth query: What kind of wood for a water wheel, Cedar? It has to be non toxic, as I'll have fish in the water. Also the pictures I've seen, seem to have the sides built of 4 larger pieces, ie. plywood. I can't see plywood holding up for long, even if it's marine plywood.
If it's gonna be constantly wet pine'll work.
Plywood? If I was gonna make a wheel to do actual work I might well use plywood, but if it was just for purty, no. Hmm, probably wouldn't make one for purty even, if I was gonna make any "yard art" I'd rather make pukey yard ducks.
Actually, if I was gonna make a wheel for real work it'd probably have a steel frame, possibly with bolt-on wooden paddles - depending on what it would be used for.
Yeah, I'm afraid it's meant to be purty (3'). The one paid plan I've seen floating around is actually octagonal not round. I was actually considering this design, since it would be simpler to cut and build. But after seeing a picture, it's kinda butt ugly. The round wheels with lots of paddles look much better. YMMV.
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I built mine out of my old redwood fence. I used the pieces the the bugs didn't eat. No plans, either. Just picked a size and made it!!
http://www.bunchobikes.com/pond118.jpg
http://www.bunchobikes.com/pond119.jpg
http://www.bunchobikes.com/pond120.jpg
More: http://www.bunchobikes.com/pond6.htm
Bill Stock wrote:

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Very nice, your spoke/hub design looks a lot like the plans I just bought. What are the angles on the joints for the rim boards, 135? What did you use for bearings? Does the weight present a problem, since you don't have an outside post? I don't plan an outside post either, but my wheel will be considerably smaller.
My 'pump house' will be smaller than yours, just big enough to hold a couple of barrels for the filter. My space is somewhat limited. Does the full flow of the filter go over the wheel or is some it directed around the wheel? I plan on about 2000 gph of flow, which will be too much for a small wheel. So I will need to divert some of it back into the pond.
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Bill Stock wrote:

I don't remember the angles. I calculated them some time ago and the papers are buried somewhere in my archives.
I did biscuit and glue them. They are also held together by the screws on each spoke. Hmmm, 8 joints into 360 = 45 degrees. That sound about right?? I biscuited and glued two pieces for each section, attached each section to another with biscuits and glue, attached the spokes temporarily, marked center then made a jig to cut the outer diameter with my bandsaw. Marked the orientation of the spokes, removed them, measured the height I wanted the side wall to be, then used a jigsaw to cut the inside diameter. Reattached the spokes. Installed the paddles with screws. Installed the bucket bottoms with screws. Since there were so many slats for the bucket bottoms, I don't think I calculated the angle. I took a couple of samples and fudged the angle on my table saw. Just got 'em close enough. Figured the water would make them swell and it didn't hurt to have a little water dripping through. Turned out I was right.
For bearings, I got some pillow block bearings from McMaster. I used a 1 1/4" steel rod for the shaft. It is about 7' long. It's weight is a bit of a counter balance for the wheel. The wheel is about 12" wide, so the first bearing is about 18" from the outside of the wheel. The other bearing is about 6' from the outside of the wheel. The wheel is held to the shaft with some 1 1/4" I.D. collars that I also got from McMaster. Weight is not an issue.
Looks can be deceiving!! The wheel house is only 6' tall. It's foot print is 6' x 6'. The footings are 6' by 4' and some change. The wheel itself is only 4' tall. The house is just big enough to fit two barrel filters, some valving and some lighting timers.
My 2000 gph pump actually deposits the water, through the filters, into the sluice. It runs 24/7. When I need to top off the pond, I turn on a remote valve which runs water over the wheel. I'm sure, if you want to, you could valve a portion of your water over your wheel. The only way I could have done that was pre-filter, off of the pressure side. I didn't want to do that. Only a very small trickle is needed to get the water wheel effect going. My pond page 5 shows a lot of this construction. In fact, if you look in this pic:
http://www.bunchobikes.com/pond102.jpg You can see where the 2" outputs from the filter pour into the sluice. Way before the wheel was built.
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180 - 360/N I think. The problem I see is picking wood wide enough cover the wood around the rim, but not so wide as to waste a lot.

The one place I saw that makes them just bolts the 8 rim pieces to the spokes, but it's a little hard to tell. The plans I have don't call for angling the slats at all, just bevelling the buckets.

Thanks, this really helps. Although my wheel house will only be a little over 2' wide, so I'll have to weigh it down accordingly.

I see you're running your filters in parallel? What sort of filter media are you using? My pond 'upgrade' is happening til the spring (we've already had frost here), so I'm just planning the filter and getting ready to build the wheel over the winter.
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Bill Stock wrote:

Yeah, I edge joined two dog eared 1" x 6" x 6' old fence pieces, then cut what I needed. I wasn't worried about waste as I had plenty of old redwood. What wasn't used was tossed.

I don't think you'll have to worry about weight much with a 2' wheel.

Just some bio-balls.
There is a "clarifier" before the pump at the other end of the pond. It collects most of the heavy stuff. I use a course filter there. The clarifier skims off the top and draws off the bottom drain keeping the water moving and rich with oxygen.
The water stays really clear, the plants grow like crazy and so do the Goldfish!!

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I've said it before but it bears repeating - That's real nice! How do you handle mosquitoes?
Dave
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Teamcasa wrote:

Thanks!!
Mosquito fish. If I notice too much larvae in the filters, I'll put a dunk or two in 'cause there are no fish there. But that is rare as the fish eat 'em all!!

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Mark and Kim Smith wrote:

Do NOT! I repeat, Do NOT let my wife see that. That rocks! That must have been alot of work based upon the small pond we built this summer. You did a great job. Thanks for sharing. Matt
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matthewf snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com wrote:

Thanks!!
I have, what, 9-10 pages there of photos?? Took me a year from start to finish to redo my whole backyard. Just me and my shovel, wheel barrel, cement mixer and aching back. The kids helped by making mud pies!
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Cypress or Redwood would be my choice.
Dave
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Bill Stock wrote:

Pretty much anything, so long as it's a _working_ wheel. It's the non-moving decorators that have the problems.
Wet wood lasts well and doesn't rot. It's _damp_ wood that has the problems. If you wet the timber and keep it wet (i.e. submerged or rotating continuously), then it'll last (for most timbers, most conditions). You can also use timbers (such as elm) that are normally a problem for beetle attack.
Personally I'd use white oak, because it's local and traditional. Your local heavyweight softwoods might survive equally well. Look at what the local fashion was, about 100 years ago.
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