warning worth repeating

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writes: : >As a father of 8 (one is 3, two are infants), this kind of stuff scares : >the daylights out of me. In addition to the slow-close hinges, the : >bottom of the trunk or chest needs to have holes or some other way for : >air to circulate. Maybe it's a good idea for the lid to have : >stand-offs or something to keep a 1/2" gap between the box and the lid : >at all times. : > : >brian : > : : Man, how did humanity ever survive 15 centuries of chests with locking lids? : : scott Same way you did Scott: Pure, unadulterated dumb luck!
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Jana THANKS for sharing. Friend of mine just built a very large Mahogany blanket chest for a friend family of his, intents to line it with aromatic ceder. It's got this huge heavy lid on a free flowing piano hinge that could no doubt kill a kid! ... or a little toddler.
I will relay your message to him.
--
Alex - "newbie_neander" woodworker
cravdraa_at-yahoo_dot-com
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: : > I know everyone here knows how important it is to use hydrolic hinges : > on the lids of chests but....I just had to write this. This weekend my : > neighbor's 2 year old granddaughter was knocked unconcious and : > suffocated. I'm writing this to ask you to think about your families, : > friends, neighbors, babysitters,,,that have chests in their homes and : > remind them to have hydrolic hinges on them. I realized myself after : > this accident that I have an antique steamer trunk in my basement. I : > now have an excuse to get rid of the junk stored in it and the trunk : > can go on the slabwood pile for all I care. Jana : > : : Jana THANKS for sharing. Friend of mine just built a very large Mahogany : blanket chest for a friend family of his, intents to line it with aromatic ceder. : It's got this huge heavy lid on a free flowing piano hinge that could no doubt : kill a kid! ... or a little toddler. : : I will relay your message to him. : : -- : Alex - "newbie_neander" woodworker : cravdraa_at-yahoo_dot-com : not my site: http://www.e-sword.net / : : When I built chests (only two in my lifetime so far) I always thought to use keep-opens and soft foams on the top/bottom of the closing surfaces to protect little finners, but, you know, I didn't go far enough. They're not airtight, but ... that wasn't the point anyway. Fortunately both have lived thru kids growing up around them. But both those kids now have kids; time for some communictions, I think. Thanks; good reminders, terrible way for them to come about.
Pop
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Wed, Feb 1, 2006, 2:44pm (EST+5) snipped-for-privacy@devnull.spamcop.net (Pop) sayeth: When I built chests (only two in my lifetime so far) I always thought to use keep-opens and soft foams on the top/bottom of the closing surfaces to protect little finners, but, you know, I didn't go far enough. They're not airtight, but ... that wasn't the point anyway. Fortunately both have lived thru kids growing up around them. But both those kids now have kids; time for some communictions, I think. Thanks; good reminders, terrible way for them to come about.
OK. For big people, chests with locks, and keep them locked around little kids. For little kids, no tops. Among other reasons, a little kid has problems enough just getting toys into a toy box. Or out. The kid definitely does NOT need to try to screw around with a lid at t he same time, definite recipe for frustration at the least and getting hurt. Give the kid a beak, no lid.
For bigger kids, you can put a top on, so it can be used for a seat too - no locking latch - plus air holes, or gap under the top edge. You got a lid on a chest, biggest problem I see is a second kid slamming it down on another kid's head or hands. Or, getting a kid in it, and then sitting on the lid. Make the lid light enough so if a kid does drop it on his/her own head or hands, it isn't gonna cause major damage - and they shoiuld learn from that, and not do it again, no big deal. So, no need for the fancy hinges, etc.
For older kids, that will NOT be climbing in it, you can put a lock on it - again, if little kids around, keep it locked. Again, I don't really see the need of fancy slow hinges, or whatever. By the time, he/she should be coordinated enough to not drop the lid on their own head/hands, and if they do, it isn't gonna do major damage. It'll teach them to be more careful next time. However, if the lid doesn't go back far enough to stand by itself, I will go along with something to hold the lid up. And, supposedly, the kid will be old enough there will be no desires to climb in the chest.
I don't believe that any locks/latches on any chest large enough to get a kid in should automatically latch when closed. That would prevent any kid from getting trapped accidently. Whcih would still not prevent someone from fastening a lock, or putting weights on the lid.
JOAT Shhh... that's the sound of nobody caring what you think.
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Children suffocating in Lane hope chests was a common enough occurrence that Lane has a standing offer of new latch mechanisms on their web page. The chests have a seal ring around the top, and are made to be airtight.
The old latch was kind of like a refrigerator latch, in that it automatically latches when you close it. The new latch requires that you push the button in while closing it to lock it, and you can lock the push button so it can't be pushed in to lock the case shut.
Anyone who owns a Lane Cedar chest should get the new latch mechanism and install it. It takes a little inletting on chests manufactured before the early seventies, but not too much. Half hour job, if the chest is full and you have to pack and repack it.
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Tue, Jan 31, 2006, 9:52am (EST-3) snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com doth advise us all: I know everyone here knows how important it is to use hydrolic hinges on the lids of chests <snip>
I certainly don't know that. What I DO know is that it seems like there's quite a bit that's not been said.
Why was a 2 yo unsupervised?
Why was the top open? And, why did it fall? Why wasn't the chest locked in the first place? Why wasn't an adult around in the first place? I'd never have let my grandkid out of my sight at that age.
I've long stated that I don't believe in tops for toy boxes/chests for little kids. Actually, untill they get to maybe 9 or 10 - old enough to not climb in one. I also believe they should NOT have a latch on them. In any event, with a top on any toy box, there should be an air gap, or holes. You got one kid, with a top, kid climbs in, shuts the lid, no prob - IF the lid dos not have a latch, and the box can allow air in. Kids do that, no biggie. However, there is always the chance the kid is gonna drop the top on their head, or hands - if it's a light top, no big deal, the kid probably will only do that once. You got two kids, one is gonna bang the other's head, and/or hands, with the top, and if one climbs in, the other is gonna sit on the lid. And, if it's got a latchl, the kid outside is as apt as not to walk away. Whan the kid gets old enough to get over all that, "then" you can put a lid on, so it can be used as a seat.
I've got a military footlocker. The kind with the metal reinforced corners, and a heavy lid. I've had it since long before my sons were born. They were not allowed to play with it - not that it was kept around where they played. I sincerely doubt they would have been able to get it open anyway, but it they could have, it certainly had a lid heavy enough to seriously hurt them.
I've found out that if you talk to a kid, and tell them they'll get hurt by playing with something, they'll usually listen; not just tell them "no".
So, again, why was a kid so young unsupervised enough that something like that would happen?
JOAT Shhh... that's the sound of nobody caring what you think.
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J T wrote:

being taken care of by an aunt. An accident like this would only take minutes. I understand what you are saying. I've lived on a lake and now have an indoor swimming pool. Needless to say, I'm a paranoid freak about watching kids but no one has eyes in the back of their head. Even tho I taught my kids to swim and explained what drowning is, I still had extra locks on the doors, fences, alarms, and padlocks for their life jackets. A two year old doesn't understand what death is so they can't understand the severity your warnings. As for you, I've seen your website. Are all of the locks out of the doors and trunks of the junkers in your back yard? >

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WOW,
Reading this has made me think, I made a blanket chest for my wife a year ago, the lid is recessed. So, if that lid were to drop on my son's hand it surely would be able to break somethingif not worse. Which I dare not think! I am on my way to the store for something that will protect him. He is 4 and I seriously doubt that he could even lift the lid since it is recessed, but nonetheless I am going to "fix" this possible situation. As well as check the toy box in his room. Some things that seem so inocculous really do much harm.
THanks for the warning
Searcher Jrs. DAD
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Tue, Jan 31, 2006, 11:20pm (EST+5) snipped-for-privacy@CS.ver.aol.com (Searcher) amazedly shouts: WOW, Reading this has made me think, I made a blanket chest for my wife a year ago, the lid is recessed. So, if that lid were to drop on my son's hand it surely would be able to break somethingif not worse. Which I dare not think! I am on my way to the store for something that will protect him. He is 4 and I seriously doubt that he could even lift the lid since it is recessed, but nonetheless I am going to "fix" this possible situation. As well as check the toy box in his room. Some things that seem so inocculous really do much harm. THanks for the warning
The kid's 4, which means he's old enough to understand what "no" means. Tell the kid to keep away from the chest, and spank him if he doesn't. Which should be sufficient, but kids today don't react that way. So, get a locking latch, install it, and keep it locked. Either that or keep a check on the kid.
As far as the toy box, you've probably read my views on them. If not, there's someone where in one of my posts in this thread.
JOAT Shhh... that's the sound of nobody caring what you think.
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Tue, Jan 31, 2006, 2:26pm (EST-3) snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com doth sayeth: The child was supposedly taking a nap. It was not her own bedroom. She was being taken care of by an aunt. An accident like this would only take minutes. I understand what you are saying. <snippity of something about a lake and a pool> As for you, I've seen your website. Are all of the locks out of the doors and trunks of the junkers in your back yard?
When you don't hear a kid, that's when you get up and check on them.
When my kids were 2 they were into about everything. I don't recall what age they started opening cabinets, but eventually they did. But, at age 2 I don't recall them "lifting", or even "trying" to lift anything but their tooys, even the lid of the wicker chest we used for their toys, and it was light. So, saying, or implying, a 2 yo got a chest lid, that's apparently heavy enough to knock them out, and t then sufficate, them, is not someting I can readily accept. To my mind, it would be more llikely a hand(s) or finger(s) would be very much more likely to get banged than a head. Unless the lid was already open, and the kid cause it to close. But, if that's t he case, no reason it should have been open.
When my kids were laid down for a nap, didn't matter if they were home or not, we'd always check to be sure they were lying down, and not getting into trouble, until they were asleep. And, when they woke up, I don't recall that they didn't make some ssort of noise, alerting us to them being awake, and to check on them.
How old was the babysitter?
As for my website, and junkers, that link has been changed a long time ago, so your recall is inaccurate. Or, if you can still access it, let me know, so I can change it. I don't have any junkers in my back yard. My son does have a Datsun pickup, with a blown engine - which will wind up back on the road, when he gets another engine in it; and, I have my project Dub, with no engine, the plan is, that will also, eventually, wind up on the road. So, neither is a "junker". All other vehicles, including my son's 1952 Buick, run. And, no ,I do not have the locks out of any of them, doors, or trunks. Why should I? They're not junkers, after all. You think a kid is gonna crawl in a locked trunk, and shut it?. Anyway, the only pictures are a couple of old ones of my Dub project car, and one of my donor engine. Oops, almost forgot - my son recently got a CJ-7, with no engine, that will be his off-road toy. Still no junker, and it's not in the back yard either. Any "junkers" around here get hauled off to, where else?, the junkyard.
JOAT Shhh... that's the sound of nobody caring what you think.
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On Tue, 31 Jan 2006 16:55:44 -0500, snipped-for-privacy@webtv.net (J T) wrote:

Agreed. And once more ...and I'm merely being curious, not maliscious... does anyone have an actual media reference to this story? He said it was recent, and I've heard not a thing. Frankly, there's a lot of trolling coming out of Ohio just now in other newsgroups. Is this [OP] substantiated fact, or another troll? It's simple enough to verify by the OP sending a reference. You are in the habit of browsing, JT. Perhaps you can find something in the news media ...and this would have been bound to hit the media. I can't find a darned thing.
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I apologize for not being more thorough. She was being watched by an aunt and the little girl was taking a nap (or supposedly). Does there really need to be more said? An accident like this only takes a few minutes. I would concider myself a watchful parent but can anyone say they havn't left their child alone in a room while they're taking a nap? The papers are pretty slow around here since the local newspapers only run once a week. It was on the Rochester, MN news channel (KTTC.com). They usually have links to their stories.
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I have no doubt the tragedy occurred Jan, but I do have to wonder about how it happened. It strikes me that a lid heavy enough to cause suffocation would be too heavy for a 2 year old to lift over their head. There must be more to this story than the simple fact that a lid fell on a child's head. Do you have any additional information about this?
--

-Mike-
snipped-for-privacy@alltel.net
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Sorry MIke, I don't have any more information. Thank you for taking my word. News around here travels more by word of mouth than the media. The local paper comes out tomorrow. There may be something in there. I'll post if something comes up. The news was fairly vague on the TV. I have a friend who was on the first responder call but am not going to call her. I'm sure there are privacy rules. I wasn't able to find the story on KTTC. They don't have archives...or I can't find them. Maybe someone else can. Anyway, I'm not in the mood to search anymore (&*(&* dial up). The accident happened in rural Lime Springs, IA. Local paper is the LIme Springs Herald and the next larger town has the Cresco Times.
My objective in posting this was for some peace of mind. I'm sincerely appreciate those of you who stopped and thought about it and took the time to support my post. . I'm extremely disturbed by those of you who made such rude remarks to the point of calling me a liar and a troll. You also assumed no one was paying any attention to this child what so ever. It makes me nautious to think of the guilt this aunt is going through. Why on earth would somebody make up a story like this?!!! And use their real name and email to boot? Jana
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Wed, Feb 1, 2006, 10:39am (EST-3) snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com now sayeth: Sorry MIke, I don't have any more information. <snip> The accident happened in rural Lime Springs, IA. <snip> I'm extremely disturbed by those of you who made such rude remarks to the point of calling me a liar and a troll. You also assumed no one was paying any attention to this child what so ever.<snip>
Well, now that I got told the corect state, I was able to track this down. http://www.desmoinesregister.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060130/NEWS08/601300339/1010
I didn't see anything ther about getting knocked unconscious, etc. But, it doesn't say how the lid got unlatched, then open, either - especially with it automatically latching when the lid closed. Makes me wonder if the lid was already open.
My memory must be failing me - because I don't recall any remarks that "I" would have called particularly rude; and, I sure don't recall reading where anyone called you a liar, or a troll. Or even implied such. Maybe I just skipped over those parts tho. The article does say the aunt was getting ready for work, and the mother was napping, which to me, shows no one was really paying much attention. Sure makes me wonder about that chest tho.
No way you're gonna keep a kid from getting hurt. And, no way you can keep an eye on them 24/7. But, you can sure try to keep them safe from the lethal stuff. You got a little kid visiting, it's pretty much a given you go around, and put anything breakable, or dangerous to them, up and, hopefully, out of their reach. The kid visits often, you put kiddy latches on your cabinets. Shouldn't be too much of a stretch to lock a chest, or shut the door to the room it's in - at least make some sort of an effort.
JOAT Shhh... that's the sound of nobody caring what you think.
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now sayeth:

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060130/NEWS08/601300339/1010
OK - well that at least explains how everything happened. Closers wouldn't have helped this situation though. Looks like keeping the chest closed and latched would have been the only thing that would have prevented this.
--

-Mike-
snipped-for-privacy@alltel.net
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Wed, Feb 1, 2006, 8:12am (EST-3) snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com <snip> It was on the Rochester, MN news channel (KTTC.com). They usually have links to their stories.
Well, I've not found anything on it. Anyone else have better luck?
JOAT Shhh... that's the sound of nobody caring what you think.
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On 1 Feb 2006 08:12:01 -0800, snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com wrote:

Thanks. I'll write to them for more detail, unless you can find the direct link to the story to save some trouble. I need to know because I'm wondering about the forces involved. The one I built has slow-closers, and offset squares on the sides for ventilation. it is solid! Beech 1.5" square for corners. Top and bottom 1x2 Beech trim around 3/4" oak veneer particle board. Sides same oak filler. Overall size about 28" cube. It was intended for parents to store toys, not a 2 yr old. The offset squares for ventilation can be removed, and the spacers discarded then applied flush for future use. I originally thought of a hatchback closer from a wreckers [I got one for a couple of dollars], but that was way overboard. Lee Valley to the rescue.
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On 1 Feb 2006 08:12:01 -0800, snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com wrote:

Never mind. I couldn't find the link, so I've written.
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Wed, Feb 1, 2006, 9:19am snipped-for-privacy@here.com (Guesswho) sayeth: <snip> You are in the habit of browsing, JT. Perhaps you can find something in the news media ...and this would have been bound to hit the media. I can't find a darned thing.
Not exactly my usual type of browsing, but I'll give it a shot. I'm quite curious too, something just doesn't seem right. Maybe comes from watching too many of the real CSI shows, Dr G, North Mission Road, and so on. LOL I don't watch the phoney CSI shows at all any more, except for NCIS - hat's only for its entertainment value. I do love Monk tho. If I come across anything, I'll post it.
JOAT Shhh... that's the sound of nobody caring what you think.
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