Village idiot

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wrote:

Ya know Mark, I spent 20 years defending these village idiots. Enough - no more cheek-turning or putting up with their bullshit.
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Have fun
Mark (sixoneeight) = 618
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The BobS entity posted thusly:

Well, the view of your newsreader is a bit murky where I'm sitting. A post with no clue as to what it was aimed at, and with no referents certainly doesn't put you in the best light.

I guess maybe you ought to add me to your list of village idiots who can't read your mind.
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<...snipped...>

The specs for propagation of usenet news do not guarantee that the order of messages received will be the same on different servers. In fact a reading of RFC1036 implies the opposite to be much more likely. In addition different people will use different news readers to sort messages in different orders. So what seems to to be "no mistaking" for one person will very likely be ust confusing to another person.
--

Larry Wasserman Baltimore, Maryland
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Larry,
Your reference to RFC1036 is correct but... and I'll quote....
"This document defines the standard format for the interchange of network News messages among USENET hosts. It updates and replaces RFC-850, reflecting version B2.11 of the News program. This memo is distributed as an RFC to make this information easily accessible to the Internet community. It does not specify an Internet standard. Distribution of this memo is unlimited."
Please note that it states "It does not specify an Internet standard." also and therefore is ambiguous since the RFC starts out with "Standard for Interchange of USENET Messages" - very confusing but your point is well taken. Simply said, not all newsreaders and servers will stack and rack the threads of a message in the same manner. I will never again rename a specific thread and make a post.....;-)
Bob S.
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Give over, Bob. You're just digging yourself deeper. De Facto v. De Jure.

Welcome to USENET, pal.
scott
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The BobS entity posted thusly:

Thank you.
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<...snipped...>

being an internet standard is that usenet predates the internet, in the form that we know it today, anyway.
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Larry Wasserman Baltimore, Maryland
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You have a good memory. Back around 1966 I worked on the world's largest computer systems at the time (SAGE) and we used a form of email then between centers and radar sites that was unique to SAGE (Semi-Automatic Ground Environment). Then about '69, I moved over to Autodin (Automatic Digital Network) where email (as we know it) really took off. Course it was all text messaging back then - and get this - all top-posting too! The screens were for the most part, not screen's but teletype machines using Baudot 5 bit code. While working at the underground in Omaha (SAC Command Center) we jerry-rigged an IBM electric typewriter to replace the teletype. About 30 days later, IBM had a working Selectric on the SACC's system (SAC Command and Control).
I get a chuckle out of some of the comments made here about not knowing anything of USENET......;-)
Thanks for the trip down memory lane....
Bob S.
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See, a lot of us still do it right.

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Top posting is proper when (1) you're talking *about* the referenced text, but not *in reply to* it, and (2) when the reader is blind and using a screen reader, which starts at the top. Yes, they have to hear the whole thread, over and over again, just to hear the new part at the bottom. At least, that was what I used to hear from them. Hopefully their software is smart enough to cope with that problem now.
Bottom posting is proper when the result reads like a conversation in a book.
While bottom posting is the more common format, it only works when you trim the included message. It's amazing how many people just copy the whole huge message and only add a tiny bit. It used to be that the news servers would reject messages that had more referenced text than new text. Sigh, those were the days.
When done right, you end up with interleaved text - each part of the original message you're replying to (trimmed to the minimum necessary), has your reply under it, followed by the next bit of the original message, then your reply to that, etc; and most of the post is new text.
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That is the major problem. I get very tired of having to scroll down half a page or more to read a response. I already know what has been previously said, and if I don't, I can look. Bottom posting forces me to look at useless information and actively skip past it. It is not at all unusual to have a full page of text with a one line reply underneath it. It is far easier to have software that eliminates the problem then try to train everyone to become a skilled editor, or to give a crap. Top posting is slowly taking over, for the better.

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It's especially useful when one does a newsgroup archive search and finds a long response. I especially love starting and the bottom and reading backwards...it's so efficient. Truth be told, the biggest problem isn't bottom- or top-posting, it's that everyone doesn't do the same thing. So, we end up with the worst case, messages that combine both.
todd
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On 4/30/2006 1:29 AM CW mumbled something about the following:

> + See, a lot of us still do it right.
Top posting is proper when (1) you're talking *about* the referenced text, but not *in reply to* it, and (2) when the reader is blind and [ rest snipped for brevity ] ----------------------
With a proper newsreader configured properly (OE is not a proper news reader and is barely a proper email client), one doesn't have to scroll through the message. If you need a reference to what was being replied, you expand the compressed section (where the + is).
Part of the reason for bottom posting is because USENET doesn't guarantee delivery of messages and may deliver messages in the wrong order. Let's say for example, my news server didn't get your earlier message, but it got DJ's reply. The logical flow of the message would make sense (since I never saw the original message). Reading from the bottom doesn't, especially if my news server missed SEVERAL messages in the thread before I got to read one.
--
Odinn
RCOS #7 SENS BS ???
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Try a different example. I only included that one line when I replied, so *everyone* saw that ;-)
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Actually, I am a bit puzzled also.
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that I responded to and called him a village idiot for making the post. I changed the subject line from "THIS IS NO JOKE! IT REALLY WORKS" to Village Idiot. Most newsreaders do show the thread with responses to the initial post under it in a directory structure. Obviously some do not or the individuals have different settings. No big deal really but it does piss me off that someone such as Larry had to take the holier than thou attitude.
So for your reading pleasure and for all those defenders of the spammers...here's the post that started the ass-kickin contest that you couldn't associate my one-liner with........ PS - I still think he's the village idiot and I really don't care what the spam defenders think. To them, place me in your kill file - please. With fellow wreckers like them - who needs enemy's....
Bob S.
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that I responded to and called him a village

I don't think Larry's response was inappropriate. Your assumption of how everyone else sees the 'net was the funny part! Rarely do people completely change the header of a post, respond to it, and delete ALL the original post, then expect people to understand what was going on! Greg
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And, of course, the correct public response to a spammer is none.
They are either looking for a response (more troolish behaviour, but still) in which case the correct response is to deny them, or they are trully spamming, in which case there's no way in hell they're going to see the outraged response and it's not only a waste of time but makes the outraged one look like an idiot.
In thiscase, given that the same spam is showing up in every newsgroup I visit, it's most certainly the latter.
The Standard Advice: Ignore, fliter.
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