Vanity mirror frames

I plan to replace the stick on wall mirror in my wifes bathroom with two 32 x36 framed mirrors made of red oak to match the cabinets. I am not a newbie wood worker but not very experienced either. I just bought some 1/4 inch s hank rail and stile bits to play with. My intention is to use4 inch stock ( WHich I think is 3.5 nominal???) My thought was to use my bits and to make the frame simlar to cabinet doors sticking the glass in the middle. Maybe u sing a french cleat to hang it.
What do you think? WOuld this look acceptable or be difficult to do? WOuld it be better to use mitered corners or to just cut a rabbet for the mirror to sit in instead of a mortise like a cabinet door?
I appreciate it!
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On 4/11/2013 9:04 AM, snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com wrote:

framed mirrors made of red oak to match the cabinets. I am not a newbie wood worker but not very experienced either. I just bought some 1/4 inch shank rail and stile bits to play with. My intention is to use4 inch stock (WHich I think is 3.5 nominal???) My thought was to use my bits and to make the frame simlar to cabinet doors sticking the glass in the middle. Maybe using a french cleat to hang it.

be better to use mitered corners or to just cut a rabbet for the mirror to sit in instead of a mortise like a cabinet door?

i have built a lot of these. without a table, you will not be able to make a slot for the mirror, and are limited to cutting a rabbet to inset the mirror. with an inset, you now need a way to hold the mirror into that inset. they make plastic buttons for this, and i believe places like rockler carries them.
it would be best if you used mortise/tenons for this. you need to make the top and bottom rails have the tenons in the end grain, rather than in the end grain of the vertical pieces. doing so will support the weight of the mirror on the strength of the tenon; the other way will support the weight of the mirror on the strength of your gluing job.
you could also use a pinned 1/2 lap joint.
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On 4/11/2013 11:04 AM, snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com wrote:

framed mirrors made of red oak to match the cabinets. I am not a newbie wood worker but not very experienced either. I just bought some 1/4 inch shank rail and stile bits to play with. My intention is to use4 inch stock (WHich I think is 3.5 nominal???) My thought was to use my bits and to make the frame simlar to cabinet doors sticking the glass in the middle. Maybe using a french cleat to hang it.

be better to use mitered corners or to just cut a rabbet for the mirror to sit in instead of a mortise like a cabinet door?

What would look acceptable would be strictly up to you.
Probably the strongest joint in this situation and with the least amount of effort would be to lap the joints and to cut a rabbet on the inside back edge.
If for instance you make the back rabbet the 1/4" deep, you can to all of the rabbet cuts to the stock before assembly. Then cut out the lap on the rails the same depth as the rabbet and equal in length to the width of the stock and on the opposite side of the rabbet.
Then cut the lap for the stiles equal in length as the width of the stock but this time 1/2" deep and on the same side as the rabbets.
Some times a picture is worth a thousand words,
http://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/8639793929/in/photostream/lightbox/
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Nicely done, Leon. Couldn't agree more with all of that, especially the idea of cutting the rabbet on the back to hold a mirror or other glass.
There are all kinds of "friendly" mechanical devices available to hold the glass onto the frame if he follows your advice.
Robert
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On 4/11/2013 12:15 PM, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

Well thank you Robert!
That is actually the basic design that I use on all of my cabinet "back face frames" now. The technique makes for a clean back side.
I made the rabbets in the example 1/4" deep and 3/4" wide, A very thin bead of glass clear caulk adhesive in the rabbet could hold the mirror or less permanent he could use some double stick foam attachment tape.
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Still with Leon on this deal. In case someone isn't following along 100%, here is an excellent illustrated discussion on the glass mounting technique to piggy back Leon's Sketchup draft:
http://www.splitlevel.net/cabinet-glass.html
Also, Leon I have used different versions of the hardware on this page http://goo.gl/Vzbg8 for display cases, cabinet glass, as well as mounting mirrors. The little thumbscrew keepers were great on the display cases I built as they folks were able to take the glass out of the frame themselves (no silicone adhesive) to be able to keep the glass sparkly clean without getting glass cleaners on the cases. They hold very well, too. And being tool less to remove the glass, they were a real hit.
(Don't worry about the compressed url it is a Google product, nothing from China or Russia).
Robert
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On Thursday, April 11, 2013 11:04:35 AM UTC-5, snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com wrote:

32x36 framed mirrors made of red oak to match the cabinets. I am not a newb ie wood worker but not very experienced either. I just bought some 1/4 inch shank rail and stile bits to play with. My intention is to use4 inch stock (WHich I think is 3.5 nominal???) My thought was to use my bits and to mak e the frame simlar to cabinet doors sticking the glass in the middle. Maybe using a french cleat to hang it.

d it be better to use mitered corners or to just cut a rabbet for the mirro r to sit in instead of a mortise like a cabinet door?

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On Thursday, April 11, 2013 11:04:35 AM UTC-5, snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com wrote:

32x36 framed mirrors made of red oak to match the cabinets. I am not a newb ie wood worker but not very experienced either. I just bought some 1/4 inch shank rail and stile bits to play with. My intention is to use4 inch stock (WHich I think is 3.5 nominal???) My thought was to use my bits and to mak e the frame simlar to cabinet doors sticking the glass in the middle. Maybe using a french cleat to hang it.

d it be better to use mitered corners or to just cut a rabbet for the mirro r to sit in instead of a mortise like a cabinet door?

I have a benchtop router table.
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snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com wrote:

In which case your bit set can make a groove for the mirror. However, the mirror has to be inserted before you put on the last rail or stile and you would not be able to replace it if it were to be broken in the future.
--

dadiOH
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Yep, my thought as well. I was taught, many years ago, to always look at any kind of glass or mirror as breakable. Because they are. And may need to be repaired or replaced some day. And not to do anything to impede that repair process. You need to get the old glass/mirror out and get the new glass/mirror in. It is basic. And essential if you have any kids around. Or even to visit. I remember. I was kid at one time. (several centuries ago.) And things get broken. Intentional or not.
I also remember an old definition my grandfather taught me. What makes us different from savages is that we can fix something if it gets broken. I guess that makes me a rung or two above the savages! LOL
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On Thursday, April 11, 2013 11:04:35 AM UTC-5, snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com wrote:

32x36 framed mirrors made of red oak to match the cabinets. I am not a newb ie wood worker but not very experienced either. I just bought some 1/4 inch shank rail and stile bits to play with. My intention is to use4 inch stock (WHich I think is 3.5 nominal???) My thought was to use my bits and to mak e the frame simlar to cabinet doors sticking the glass in the middle. Maybe using a french cleat to hang it.

d it be better to use mitered corners or to just cut a rabbet for the mirro r to sit in instead of a mortise like a cabinet door?

I guess I like the inside bead like a cabinet door looks.
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On Thursday, April 11, 2013 11:04:35 AM UTC-5, snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com wrote:

32x36 framed mirrors made of red oak to match the cabinets. I am not a newb ie wood worker but not very experienced either. I just bought some 1/4 inch shank rail and stile bits to play with. My intention is to use4 inch stock (WHich I think is 3.5 nominal???) My thought was to use my bits and to mak e the frame simlar to cabinet doors sticking the glass in the middle. Maybe using a french cleat to hang it.

d it be better to use mitered corners or to just cut a rabbet for the mirro r to sit in instead of a mortise like a cabinet door?

Well, then what about using the cabinet bits but using pocket screws instea d of glue to hold it togther?
I know it could happen, but the mirror that is up there now has been there since 1998 without any breaks.
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On Thursday, April 11, 2013 11:04:35 AM UTC-5, snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com wrote:

32x36 framed mirrors made of red oak to match the cabinets. I am not a newb ie wood worker but not very experienced either. I just bought some 1/4 inch shank rail and stile bits to play with. My intention is to use4 inch stock (WHich I think is 3.5 nominal???) My thought was to use my bits and to mak e the frame simlar to cabinet doors sticking the glass in the middle. Maybe using a french cleat to hang it.

d it be better to use mitered corners or to just cut a rabbet for the mirro r to sit in instead of a mortise like a cabinet door?

So in essence, even if I use the cabinet bits and install the mirror like a raised panel, it is still really "replaceable" by performing the above and routing out the center groove so a new mirror can be placed from behind. ( I know it is more work).
I actually thought about routing out a rabit from behind for the mirror to go into, however not sure how I could create the inside bead and get it loo k correct without mitering the rail and stile. I am not sure how this would hold up in terms of strength.
I had planed on buying a "french cleat" to mount the mirror. However I thin k this will cause the mirror to stick out from the wall maybe 1/4 of an inc h. Can anyone think of a better way to mount that would be easy I could do by myself but would allow the mirror to be flush with the wall?
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On 4/12/2013 7:34 AM, snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com wrote:

32x36 framed mirrors made of red oak to match the cabinets. I am not a newbie wood worker but not very experienced either. I just bought some 1/4 inch shank rail and stile bits to play with. My intention is to use4 inch stock (WHich I think is 3.5 nominal???) My thought was to use my bits and to make the frame simlar to cabinet doors sticking the glass in the middle. Maybe using a french cleat to hang it.

be better to use mitered corners or to just cut a rabbet for the mirror to sit in instead of a mortise like a cabinet door?

raised panel, it is still really "replaceable" by performing the above and routing out the center groove so a new mirror can be placed from behind. (I know it is more work).

into, however not sure how I could create the inside bead and get it look correct without mitering the rail and stile. I am not sure how this would hold up in terms of strength.

this will cause the mirror to stick out from the wall maybe 1/4 of an inch. Can anyone think of a better way to mount that would be easy I could do by myself but would allow the mirror to be flush with the wall?

Just a heads up here. Respond directly to whom you are communication with vs. starting a new post under your own posts. It looks like you are talking to yourself otherwise.
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snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com writes:

Use a router with a keyhole bit to make a keyhole on each stile.
scott
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snipped-for-privacy@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) wrote in writes:

I second that opinion.
--
Best regards
Han
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snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com wrote:

Correct. using a rabbet in the back for the mirror, your rail/stile bits are only needed for the coping of rails to stiles. If it/they have a separate cutter for the groove, you can just not use it. _________________

Things can hang flush with French cleats. The portion attached to the frame just has to be recessed into the frame by at least the thickness of the portion attached to the wall. You can also get thin metal hangers that function just llike wood French cleats. My 10' long bed headboard is hung on wooden ones and is flush to the wall; two night stands are hung on it the same way and they are flush to the headboard.
Someone mentioned keyhole slots in the frame. Certainly doable but the slots and the round head screws that fit into them have to be exactly aligned. Additionally, the round head screws need to go into something in the wall that will sustain the weight of mirror and frame.
You can also just screw the frame to the wall - same caveat about going into something - and fill the countersunk screw holes with face grain plugs.
For that matter, the whole works could be attached with a mastic like that used to attach unframed mirrors. Not easy to remove, though, usually sawed off with a thin wire.
--

dadiOH
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On Thu, 11 Apr 2013 09:04:35 -0700 (PDT), snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com wrote:

framed mirrors made of red oak to match the cabinets. I am not a newbie wood worker but not very experienced either. I just bought some 1/4 inch shank rail and stile bits to play with. My intention is to use4 inch stock (WHich I think is 3.5 nominal???) My thought was to use my bits and to make the frame simlar to cabinet doors sticking the glass in the middle. Maybe using a french cleat to hang it.

be better to use mitered corners or to just cut a rabbet for the mirror to sit in instead of a mortise like a cabinet door?

If you place a mirror in a rabbet do you have to color the rabbet?
I saw guy on TV do that but didn't hear the explanation.
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On 4/12/2013 7:14 AM, snipped-for-privacy@wind.net wrote:

32x36 framed mirrors made of red oak to match the cabinets. I am not a newbie wood worker but not very experienced either. I just bought some 1/4 inch shank rail and stile bits to play with. My intention is to use4 inch stock (WHich I think is 3.5 nominal???) My thought was to use my bits and to make the frame simlar to cabinet doors sticking the glass in the middle. Maybe using a french cleat to hang it.

be better to use mitered corners or to just cut a rabbet for the mirror to sit in instead of a mortise like a cabinet door?

you will see the back side of the rabbet reflected in the edge of the mirror. it should be the same color as the faces, so yes, you may have to finish it the same way.
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On 4/12/2013 9:14 AM, snipped-for-privacy@wind.net wrote:

32x36 framed mirrors made of red oak to match the cabinets. I am not a newbie wood worker but not very experienced either. I just bought some 1/4 inch shank rail and stile bits to play with. My intention is to use4 inch stock (WHich I think is 3.5 nominal???) My thought was to use my bits and to make the frame simlar to cabinet doors sticking the glass in the middle. Maybe using a french cleat to hang it.

be better to use mitered corners or to just cut a rabbet for the mirror to sit in instead of a mortise like a cabinet door?

The mirror will reflect the rabbet, finished or unfinished, around the perimeter.
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