Used shellac for the first time - need advice

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wrote:

Do you cut down your own trees, too?...rip and dry your own wood? lol
You hafta draw the line somewhere. Everybody has their different line in the sand.
Have a nice week...
Trent
Fighting for peace is like screwing for virginity!
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wrote:

Yes.
Pretty soon I hope to have my own land, so I can grow them too. Nearly bought a woodland last year, but rejected it (damn fool) because it was all larch and I couldn't make furniture from them.
-- Die Gotterspammerung - Junkmail of the Gods
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Well, I haven't cut any trees down, but I've got several mesquite short-logs that I dried out and I cut up into slabs as I need them for various projects. A woman at work was bringing down a beautiful old tree that was getting to be a hazard, and she let me know about it. Unfortunately, the chainsaw guys cut it up into lengths no longer than 4'. But it was a huge old tree:
http://www.swt.edu/~cv01/logs1.jpg
http://www.swt.edu/~cv01/logs2.jpg
Mesquite has gotten to be a "boutique wood" down here, and it's d*mn*d expensive. It's also nearly impossible to find thicker than 4/4. So I jumped at the chance to get some slabs for myself. I've gotten some pretty good exercise ripping and dimensioning these boards by hand, but they've made for a couple of nice additions for the home:
http://www.swt.edu/~cv01/mesquitable02.jpg
http://www.swt.edu/~cv01/meslamp02.jpg
Chuck Vance Just say (tmPL) Yes, I used *quality* handplanes extensively on those projects. :-)
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B a r r y B u r k e J r . wrote:

Over the years I've gotten more "You made THAT??" than "You MADE that?" exclaimations. <g> - My tub to shower conversion, chunk of bicycle inner tube, garden hose piece, lawn sprinkler, clamps, electricians tape. It worked the whole 6 months we lived in the apartment. - A business office closed & I got two 3' x 6' desks. The unwarped desktop became my 3'x5' drafting table. (1) The two sets of drawers from each got screwed together & castors on the bottom to make two 4-drawer roll arounds. One is in my office & the other in the shop. - To save floor space in my home office, a bookcase screwed into the wall 4' off the floor. - Single-shelf bookshelves made with a back and sides whose sides are simply screwed to a large bookshelf. "Make-do engineering."
There are several pieces around the house I'm proud of (for the skills I had at the time <g>) But there are a lot of useful things around the house ("NOT in the living room!" - SWMBO) that are cutoffs, butt joints & drywall screws. After I made my router table it's now cuttoffs, rabbets & drywall screws.
Everyone always posts such nice work in a.b.p.w. Maybe I'll post a sense of humor tester... ;-)
-- Mark
(1) Nothing to shake your head about with a tilting top drafting table, UNLESS it's Rube-Goldberged to a computer table in such a way as no additional holes had to be drilled in the computer table. Which it is. With nearly matched scrap pieces on each end...
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Steve James wrote:

Sounds like wax...IIRC, that's the directions that Flexner gave for dewaxing shellac.

I buy mine from the local Woodcraft store.
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Chris Merrill
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It sounds as if you have a sanding sealer which has loads of heavy partials that fill the grain and to some extent will obliterate it. if left to stand in a warm room for a week or two it should settle out
Greg
: I just finished the fir base for a new workbench I'm building with : commercial Zinsser Bulls Eye Shellac (Clear). I was surprised when I : open the can because it looked like milk - a white suspension. I'm not : sure if this is wax (I thought clear Shellacs were dewaxed) or if the : stuff was spoiled in some way. The manufactured date on the bottom of : the can is 8-18-03 so it is pretty fresh stuff. I let a few drops of it : dry on the can lid as an experiment and it gave a hard film after drying : overnight but VERY cloudy. I tried warming the stuff by putting the : closed can in some hot water for a while. No change - none of the : suspended solids appeared to dissolve. So I diluted part of it from a 3 : lb cut to a 1 lb cut, and filtered it though a coffee filter. Very slow : to filter but it gave a nice amber solution which was just slightly : cloudy. The filter contained lots of white solids. I use the filtered : stuff to finish the base. Put on one coat and let it dry overnight and : sanded smooth with 220, then put on two more coats without any : additional sanding. The results are quite nice - the wood is slightly : darker and has a nice somewhat glossy clear surface. I mainly did this : to put a water vapor barrier on the base to minimize wood movement due : to humidity change. I don't think I would have gotten this nice : appearance if I'd used the stuff out of the can. Is this par for the : course with premixed Shellac or did I get some bad stuff? Are the : white solids wax or something else? : : In the future I plan to mix up my own Shellac and hopefully avoid these : problems. Can anyone recommend a good source for dewaxed Shellac : flakes? : : -- : To email me use: sjusenet AT comcast DOT net
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Steve James wrote:

Weird. I just tried some of that for the first time too. Similarly recent manufacture. It looked rather like caramel in the can. I used it straight up, and I think it turned out OK, though I'm mildly concerned that it took longer than it should have to dry. I'm hoping I just put it on too thick.
My biggest complaint was the smell. It makes poly/mineral spirits smell like sweet candy by comparison. I was totally unprepared for just how noxious those alcohol fumes would be. Probably the "denatured" part of it I guess. I presume it has stuff in the can to make it highly poisonous, so winos don't guzzle it.
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Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan < snipped-for-privacy@users.sourceforge.net>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
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The solvent used for commercial shellac, denatured ethanol, evaporates rapidly to the finish dries quickly but you get a lot of solvent in the air in a short time. Ethanol is much safer from a health standpoint than almost any other organic solvent used in finishes - even the ones that don't have so much smell. The denaturing agent is usually a few percent methanol which is poisonous if ingested and can cause blindness. I don't think breathing small amounts of it is likely to be very hazardous. Some denatured alcohol used to contain benzene - a known human carcinogen. I don't know if it is still used, but I would certainly avoid it. Read the label. I finished my workbench base in the basement and ventilated the room by removing one window and installing a window fan to exhaust air, and opening the window at the far side of the room. The warm weather we've been having on the east coast is am unexpected blessing for this time of year. Since exhausting air from the room creates a slight negative pressure, none of the solvent fumes could be detected in the rest of the house. I wear a mask with cartridge filters when I use any organic solvent finish. You still need good ventilation though or you will overwhelm the activated charcoal in the cartridges. The mask worked well for me when applying the Shellac - I couldn't smell the ethanol at all while I did the application, and afterwards I left the room until the piece was dry and the ventilation had removed all the solvent. Shellac in ethanol dries rapidly so it doesn't take long.
--
To email me use: sjusenet AT comcast DOT net

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On Wed, 05 Nov 2003 01:36:10 -0500, Silvan

I've no idea what you use in the USA, but in the UK our "methylated spirit" stinks of pyridine. Horrible stuff, and a really unpleasant thing to work with all day. If you can find strong drinking alcohol, like Everclear (which we don't have in the UK) then it's a lot more pleasant to work with.
Most meths is also dyed purple, which can produce a visible cast in white or some blonde shellac. Undyed isn't that hard to find, but buying unstenched alcohol generally needs a trade account with a chemical supplier.
-- Die Gotterspammerung - Junkmail of the Gods
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for a little extra, HD sells a "low odor" mineral spirits. I've never bought any, but if the price of admission isn't too much extra, I think I'll give it a try next time. I hate the smell of the regular stuff. I'd rather smell Zinnser's shellac! :)
dave
Andy Dingley wrote:

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wrote:

Mineral spirits ? If that's what we call "white spirit" then it's no use with shellac at all.
Shellac needs methylated spirits (mainly ethanol with some methanol, and the colour and stench) or some people favour isopropanol (isopropyl alcohol).
-- Die Gotterspammerung - Junkmail of the Gods
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Andy, I'm talking about "paint thinner". Mineral spirits = paint thinner. It's used for poly; not shellac. Denatured alcohol for shellac, as you mentioned several types.
dave
Andy Dingley wrote:

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Bay Area Dave wrote:

Yes you are talking about mineral spirits, but the question we have is *why*.
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Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan < snipped-for-privacy@users.sourceforge.net>
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the answer WE have is "read Andy's comments preceding mine". I believe he is in the UK. Have you been inhaling MEK again and lost the last few billion of your brain cells? I can't believe you have asked 3 of the stupidest ever questions in the last 24 hours. You are a real prize, my friend.
dave
Silvan wrote:

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Dave, I made the post that originated this thread and I too cannot understand why you made a post about mineral spirits (aliphatic hydrocarbon paint thinner) in a thread about shellac. Mineral spirits are a nonsolvent for shellac. And what's with the hostile response to someone asking you to explain a nonsensicle post?
--
To email me use: sjusenet AT comcast DOT net

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If you followed the thread more carefully, you would see it wasn't "nonsense". Silvan made a comment, followed by Andy about spirits. I then mentioned that you can get low odor mineral spirits. Do you think I don't know that alcohol is used in shellac? Christ almighty! You just enjoy trying to make me "wrong" when the issue is your ineptitude! and you can't spell too well, either! :)
stick to WW issues with me or talk to the hand.
dave
Steve James wrote:

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He may have, but judging from your previous antics, what could one presume you might know or not know?
But clearly you did not know that when Andy referred to "methylated spirits," he was employing the Queen's English in describing what we call "denatured alcohol." When you, in your typical slap-dash, shoddy, fishy, atrocious, shameful, capricious, cavalier, obtuse, idiotic, ill-conceived, brain-dead, embarrassing, egregious, juvenile, provincial, sloppy, weak, flimsy, dubious, cockamamie, half-baked, puzzling, amateurish understanding of woodworking, assumed Andy was talking about mineral spirits (paint thinner), you blubbered about how, "for a little extra, HD sells a "low odor" mineral spirits. "
That was an ignorant non-sequiter at best. Your casual treatment of the most basic woodworking terms is just a little disturbing, dude.

I think you left off the suffix, "-job," from this lame rejoinder.
O'Deen
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as much as THIS is off-topic I presumed one was allowed to discuss mineral spirits even in a "shellacking" thread, in keeping with a longstanding Wreck tradition of going OT.
You are one cranky sonofabitch, I'll give you that.
Bite me!
dave
Patrick Olguin wrote:

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MY antics? Ok, then how about morons who ask, "why do you sand shellac?". How did he slip under your omnipresent, discerning eye? eh?
Your initials sum up your 'tude: P.O.
dave
Patrick Olguin wrote: snip

snip
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Bay Area Dave wrote:

In the original thread the benefits of using dewaxed shellac verses waxed shellac was being discussed. You piped in that (dewaxed) "supposedly easier to sand...".
Although this was the first time I've ever seen a finish's ability to be sanded used as a criteria for selection and use, let's discuss a number of different processes:
1. Sanding a finish to provide a tooth - This is done with reactive film finishes to allow better adhesion of subsequent applications. Shellac is an evaporative finish. With an evaporative finish a subsequent application will meld into the previous one. Shellac does not require sanding between coats.
2. Using a sanding sealer - Sanding sealers, shellac included, are used to bind and support wood fibers to allow the sanding of certain woods to a smooth finish. Note that it is the wood that is being sanded not the support media.
3. Rubbing out a finish - The use of various fine abrasives to achieve a desired effect in a final coat of finish. Note that this process is normally referred to as "rubbing out" not "sanding".
4. Sanding a finish off - the act of removing a finish, usually accomplished by the use of sandpaper and a sander.
You've already provided enough information for me to determine which of these you do, but I still question why.
-- Jack Novak Buffalo, NY - USA (Remove "SPAM" from email address to reply)
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