Update on a previous post on the Delta Hybrid Saw (36-717)


There is a high-end retailer of woodworking equipment here in SE Michigan, a place that actually assembles their showroom equipment "professionally" because they know it reflects well on the equipment if it looks like it all fits together.
I was in there this past week getting some fingerprints on their stuff, and they had a bright shiny Delta 36-717 on display. This is one of the new hybrid saws Delta was eight months behind schedule bringing to market.
Someone recently posted a question regarding this saw, and not many people replied with answers.
Well, based on the store owner's answers, I can tell you Delta's long march down the Black and Decker drain is well on its way.
He said the assembly of the saw was a nightmare. The fence didn't fit at all...he had to tap all new holes in the wings to get it onto the saw. He also said none of the rest of it went together right at all either. One bad fit after another...an excersize in frustration.
His words, his experience verbatim.
Who here thinks Delta can save themselves?
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On 26 Nov 2005 20:42:50 -0800, wood snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com wrote:

Sounds like an opportunity for a dealer to start stocking NOS (new old stock) Delta parts and for manufacturers to start exploring the possiblity of building OEM-spec replacement parts for the real iron that Delta used to build.
As for the Delta brand, given all the commentary given here, including the thread on no longer stocking old parts -- it looks like they are intent upon following the path of Craftsman -- exploit the name for all it's worth for as many years as possible until buyers start to catch on to the "value-engineering" taking place. It will probably take a while, there are going to be a number of years where the average Joe is going to look at tools at the local Borg and say to himself, "Wow! I had no idea I'd ever be able to afford a *Delta* [insert tool here], and here I thought I'd only be able to get a Black & Decker!" More than likely, for the average Joe, that Delta will be better than he could have gotten in a really cheap brand, but will no longer have the quality to satisfy serious hobby woodworkers or smaller volume professionals. In fairness to B&D, if they are looking for high volume, this is probably the way to go; while some of us are very much value and quality-oriented buyers for good WW equipment, we are a small minority compared to others. Since B&D ruined their name years ago, their only choice is to find another untainted name to take down the same path.
If I look at my buying habits regarding electronic equipment, I probably fall into the "average Joe" category in that realm, so I do understand people looking for the best quality they can afford at a cheap price. Unfortunately, what is happening to Delta is hitting me in my "serious hobby" category -- I don't like that.
As someone with a shop full of Delta tools, I know that my satisfaction with their quality started going way down after buying the hollow chisel mortiser -- Delta is no longer #1 on my list of preferred tool suppliers.
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"Mark & Juanita" wrote in message

Ditto, on the same tool, AAMOF ... the handles of the hold downs break as if they were matchsticks.
I've also had a similar problem with the knobs on a Porter Cable 7529 router I bought at a garage sale a few months back. The difference in quality between it and the older PC routers I own is noticeable.
I was raised to take good care of tools, and one of the foremost reasons was that they represented the spending of money that was hard to come by.
Add another incentive ... they can no longer be replaced at any price.
I keep marveling at how prescient Orwell was in "1984" ... and I'll say it again - the effect of B & D taking over Delta is analogous to Home Depot taking over Lee Valley.
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< I keep marveling at how prescient Orwell was in "1984" ... and I'll say it < again - the effect of B & D taking over Delta is analogous to Home Depot < taking over Lee Valley.
A pox on you for even thinking it
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Swingman wrote:

Oh, man. I already had an upset stomach keeping me home. I don't have any problem with B&D tools in the proper atmosphere (just got a new Workmate 425, in fact), but I sure hope your analogy nevers come close to being true.
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"Charlie Self" wrote in message

You and me both. But we have both lived long enough to realize that the driving force behind a company the likes of LV is mortal, and therefore fragile ... did you ever think you'd see a Ford Jaguar?
Since the subject came up, I just went out to the shop and performed an "upgrade" to the height adjustment rod of my PC 7529 plunge base router (I replaced the plastic tightening "knob" with a 7/16" nut).
Since I only paid $40 for it at a garage sale, I don't feel too bad about it being shoddier than my older PC routers, but it sure gives you an accurate gauge of just how far down the quality ladder PC has come in the last 5 to 10 years, particularly when compared, side by side, to the plunge base I bought for the 690's when PC first came out with it.
It's an excellent benchmark. The difference is quality is startling.
Makes you pity all the new woodworkers joining the ranks who, from lack of perspective, are oblivious to the difference.
Hope you get to feeling better ...
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Swingman wrote:

Let's hope that one or more of Rob's children show an interest in, and talent for, the business.
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Charlie Self said:

One can only hope. But it's been my experience that successful businessmen often have children who are far more interested in the money than the business.
Greg G.
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Greg G. wrote:

I dunno. Most often the ones I've seen, in the very few family run and owned businesses I've seen, simply have children who have no interest in the business. In one particular case, I don't believe it was money. All the children were successful on their own, but simply did not wish to be in the manufacturing business. The father had to sell out to a much larger company because of a lack of smaller, family-oriented buyers.
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Mark & Juanita wrote:

In all fairness, and to stick with hybrid saws, I got a Craftsman hybrid last year. With one exception, it went together easily, everything fit, and it has served for about 15 months without a glitch. The exception was the rear extension table arm, and that was as much my fault as anything: I had one of those days when I could have tipped a child's alphabet block to show the correct letter.
Of course, that saw was designed by a bunch old Delta hands...
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wrote:

elsewhere soon. Jim
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Not soon my friend, but already.

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Let me clarify, I understand that it appears that Sears is trying to resurrect the Craftsman brand and restore some of its tarnished image; I should have been more clear -- I was referring to the path that Sears had traveled the past 20 to 30 years, with decreasing quality and lowered price points.
It's good to hear that Craftsman may become a good tool brand again.
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Lets hope they keep the Unisaw up to standard, from what I have heard the new saw is an import. Not to say imports are bad, but they sure can be. I have a lot more dealings with metal working tools than wood but some imports are good others aren't. I sold a Takisawi lathe that was as good as they get, right up there with the best machines from anywhere. I would be sad to see the Delta name go down the toilet, I have a few of there machines and they serve me very good.
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On Sun, 27 Nov 2005 16:15:28 -0500, "wayne mak"

The new Powermatic PM2000 is an Asian import. How scary is that?
At least they still sell the PM66, for now...
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