Upcut router bit comment

[Bay Area Dave]

Finally bit the bullet and purchased my first upcut spiral bit. Using it to cut mortises (or dados) is a pleasure compared with a straight bit. Plunging effort isn't any easier, but once you've got the board down on the bit (on a router table), moving the board (in my first attempt, red oak) over the bit is FAR easier and the results are superb. I looked on line for bit prices and was dismayed to see that most hover just under $50 for a 1 1/4" deep, 1/2 shanked 3/8 spiral upcut. I ended up getting a Freud locally for $39. Tax was less than shipping would have been on line. Another benefit is there's no sawdust packed in the mortise as when using a straight bit.

Sidenote: I Googled to see if the proper term is "upcut spiral" or "spiral upcut". Seems there is plenty of references to either term!

dave

[Mike in Mystic]

Freud isn't too bad, but I'm pretty much a CMT bit man almost exclusively now. I've tried amana, whiteside, lee valley, woodcraft, etc. etc. The whitesides and amanas are good, but the CMT bits are wonderful. And they cost a lot to prove it. But, I've found them to hold their edge probably twice as long as others and the performance new bit vs. new bit is clearly in favor of the CMT, IMO.

Mike

[Bay Area Dave]

You should see my router bit drawer, Mike. It's almost exclusively CMT! :)

dave

Mike > Freud isn't too bad, but I'm pretty much a CMT bit man almost exclusively

[FOW]

[Paul Andersen]

Fine time to tell you..... I see MLCS has what you describe for $29

Woodchip

[Bay Area Dave]

where you yesterday when I was searching the catalogs (CMT) and online for prices, Paul? :)

Besides, I ALWAYS pay to much. It's my lot in life.

dave

Paul Andersen wrote:

[Wes Stewart]

|Freud isn't too bad, but I'm pretty much a CMT bit man almost exclusively |now. I've tried amana, whiteside, lee valley, woodcraft, etc. etc. The |whitesides and amanas are good, but the CMT bits are wonderful. And they |cost a lot to prove it. But, I've found them to hold their edge probably |twice as long as others and the performance new bit vs. new bit is clearly |in favor of the CMT, IMO.

While it didn't address spiral bits, FWW Magazine did a comparison study of double-fluted, carbide straight bits in Issue 137.

Whiteside was the performance winner and was not the highest priced either. I've been very happy with mine so far.

Wes

[BErney1014]

A word of caution, this happened to me: I was using an upcut in a table to make a drawer bottom slot in 4/4 birch and the bit worked loose. I was quite surprised to see it pop up out of the wood like a worm.

[stoutman]

This happened to me too.

BE CAREFUL with these bits. In a router table the bit wants to PULL it self out of the collet. Make sure you have that sucker in the collet good!!

I was making grooves and I couldn't figure out why my grooves were getting deeper and deeper. I thought my router was working it way up, but it was the bit pulling it self from the collet.

[stoutman]

I thought you had a mortiser?

:)

[Bay Area Dave]

just the POS Delta attachment for the DP. I HATE that thing. Setting it up is such a hassle and then you get those frickin' holes in the bottom of the mortise, lousy sides, hard to set up parallel to the work piece, and those damn bits always seem to find their way into my fingers! (I'm too lazy to walk across the shop to get my gloves...) Did I leave anything negative out? Yes; the quality of the mortise is an order of magnitude less satisfying than one done with an upcut spiral router bit. :)

dave

stoutman wrote:

[rmball28]

I have read that end mills for vertical milling macines can be used very effectively as substitutes for spiral bits. They are certainly a lot less expensive.

[CW]

Most of the "spiral router bits" you see for sale are actually made for milling aluminum.

[Bay Area Dave]

the Freud guy I spent an hour with last week said that cutting metal requires a softer carbide to prevent the shock of metal cutting from breaking brittle, but harder carbide designed for wood cutting. I have no idea if what he said is correct, but everything else we spoke about leads me to believe him... In other words the carbide for metal is made softer than what we use for wood cutting. Softer carbide he said would dull too fast when cutting lots of wood. Might sound counter intuitive, but that's what the man said. He goes up and down the West coast in a Freud truck.

dave

[e-mail] wrote:

[CW]

He was feeding you a line. The generic designation for carbide hardness ranges from C-2 to C-6. The higher the number, the harder. Endmills are generally made from C-5 or C-6. Carbide for woodworking cutters (saw blades and brazed type router bits are the only specs I have seen) is C-2 to C-3. The softer carbide wears faster than the harder stuff but is a bit tougher making it more resistant to breaking from uneven feed and chatter that is more likely to happen when hand feeding. If you want to know about carbide tooling, seek out a Kennametal dealer. They have done research into carbide tooling far deeper than you are likely to even want to know. Their tooling seminar was one of the best industry (metalworking) seminars I ever attended. They go into carbide grades, coating grades, applications for same, cutting geometry, feeds and speeds, horsepower requirements for various cuts with various geometries, ect.

[Bay Area Dave]

no wonder what he told me seemed "counter-intuitive". :)

dave

CW wrote: