Under $1K TS: Craftsman vs the Green Monster

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I went to Sears this afternoon to take a look - in particular at the $950 (list) cabinet saw.
I was a lttle disappointed to tell you the truth. I didn't have a lot of time, but there were a few things that jumped out at me.
The first thing I went for was the Bies fence. Maybe I'm mis- informed, but I was expecting a massive extruded aluminum fence - the Biesmeyer labeled one that had on the machine was some sort of phenolic (I guess the HMW stuff). When I pressed the handle to lock it, the fence front jumped - is that normal? To be honest, the Craftsman fence on the next lower priced "contractor type" saw looked sturdier.
Second, I turned the wheel that controls the blade height. Again, I thought it was a little "dinkey" (?). Not much better than what's on my 15 yr old $300 import.
Although the side handle/knob was missing, I got the impression that the one control wheel adjusted BOTH the blade height and angle - you must pull or push a knob on the side - I'm not sure, but it wasn't what I would call sturdy.
I have been eyeing this saw vs. The Griz 1023S. From what I have seen so far, I think I would get the green monster if I bought one now.
Lou
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I think it would take more than a table saw to knock down all 37 feet of green monster.

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Much cheaper these days.

While a properly installed Bies may slide slightly when you lock it down if it was not parallel, it should not jump. Perhaps it was not installed properly. Properly installed, the Bies fence is much better than the other contractor fences to which you are referring. The Grizzly 1023 classic fence will certainly be more similar to the Bies than the contractor fences.

Your impression is wrong. There should be two wheels -- one for tilt and one for height. This is what happens when a 16-year old sales clerk puts together the display model.
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loutent states:

Almost certainly, the Biese was set up wrong. And if you're expecting aluminum extrusions on a Biese, your expectations are wrong.

Your impression is wrong. And the wheels are sturdier than most, though smaller than those on a full scale cabinet saw.

I'd say you need to do some more thorough checking of both saws before you make a decision, though the odds are excellent that you'll be happy with either one.
Charlie Self "Absolute faith corrupts as absolutely as absolute power." Eric Hoffer
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I have owned a 1023S for 2-1/2 years and recently stopped by Sears, got down on my hands and knees and looked inside of the new machine. I don't think they compare well.
If you cannot get to a Grizzly store, give them a call. They will provide the names and numbers of up to 2 people in your area that have made a similar purchase lately. Go take a look a the Griz 1023, especially under the table, and then look at the Sears machine. Also compare the use of plastic vs metal in cabinet and other parts.
If you cannot do this, at least download the 1023 manual from Grizzly and take it to Sears and visually compare the size of the trunnion castings with the Sears. My impression when I open the metal motor cover on my Griz is there is a motor and a lot of cast iron. When I open the plastic door on the Sears machine I see mostly motor, acme screws and smaller amounts of iron.
BTW, The ShopFox Classic fence on the 1023S is not aluminum. It is steel and is solid as a rock.
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Hi Ron,
I own a Grizzly 1.5 HP shaper (5+ years now) and it is everything that is advertized. There is no plastic anywhere on this machine. It "feels" like it will last forever - at least in my small hobby/woodworking shop.
This was not my impression with the Craftsman. Before I buy anything, I will definitely have a hands-on look at some recent local Grizzly buyers. Thanks for your suggestion.
I figure the next TS I buy will be the last (gulp!). I want it to last for 20 years or so (as long as I can get my wood up onto it, so to speak).
No hurry with this.
Lou
wrote:

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First I've heard about this practice. Does Grizzly get a release for this? Its getting where references are hard to get because of privacy issues. I'm having a roof done by a major company in our area and they said they had to stop giving references because of increased concerns about privacy issues. They can tell you where a house is that they did but will not give a name and number.
Bob
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Bob responds:

Grizzly has been doing this for over a decade that I know of.
Sounds like your roofer had some reference problems that weren't to do with privacy.
Charlie Self "It is when power is wedded to chronic fear that it becomes formidable." Eric Hoffer
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Charlie Self wrote:

Heh... Makes me think. The roofers who did Dad's roof must have read the ad wrong, and they thought the job entailed reefer.
--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan < snipped-for-privacy@users.sourceforge.net>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
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with
Nope. Their word-of-mouth reputation is excellent.
Bo
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Bob responds:

Then I don't understand why he can't ask for permission from people for whom he's worked and then use them as references.
Charlie Self "It is when power is wedded to chronic fear that it becomes formidable." Eric Hoffer
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whom
Neither do I, Charlie. I had many meetings with two sales people (I'm doing roof, siding and window replacement). These guys were pretty straight and oriented toward doing first class work with top materials, rather than cutting corners. One of them spent a lot of extra effort doing photos to help us get $4000 reimbursement from previous shingle manufacturer for early failure. The reference situation was a bit offputting. They did drive us around to look at houses they had done in other areas. In the overall picture, they gained my confidence enough to win the contracts and their work thus far is superb (still in progress). They were the only bidders that seemed to understand how much material my weird house would take for materials. They showed up the first day with 100 tubes of caulk.
Bob
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Probably Lawyers.
Most prospective employers want you to provide a list of references for employment with a resume or application. Problem is, many employers are restricted by company policies on the level of information they are willing to provide about a present or former employee. Liability and privacy laws.
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RonB responds:

Sorry, that won't wash. A contractor is not going to ask for personal references, but only to have people who are satisfied with his work make a statement to that effect. A whole different ball game. Did the guy complete the job in an a timely manner? Did his men do a good job? Was the site properly cleaned up afterwards?
The contractor is not going to offer a reference he knows will lay his rep waste unless he's a complete and unremitting fool.
What privacy? The guy puts on a good roof or he doesn't or he's doing mediocre work.
Sorry, but the whole situation strikes me as absurd, and blaming it on lawyers is a cop-out, as far as I can see.
Charlie Self "It is when power is wedded to chronic fear that it becomes formidable." Eric Hoffer
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With the expansion of telephone solicitation, email spam, and junk mail we've seen in the last two decades, more people are remiss to give out their contact information for any purpose whatsoever. That doesn't have anything to do with lawyers, but it often is labled as privacy.
Bob
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BillyBob makes sense with:

OK. That's understandable. But telephone solicitation is pretty much down the tubes these days, so a phone call might be a decent way to get in touch. Email has about reached the stage where it's pointless to email someone you don't already know. Junk mail isn't really relevant in this case, but is minor nuisance compared to the major PITA spam email brings on, and once almost hourly interruptions provided by phone sales types.
Charlie Self "Political language... is designed to make lies sound truthful and murder respectable, and to give an appearance of solidity to pure wind." George Orwell
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On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 04:22:09 GMT, "BillyBob"

If a contractor does a good job for us, we are very happy to give him a reference: there are few enough of them so it's a small way of saying thank you.
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wrote:

for the most part the work of a roofer (per OP) can be assessed from the street. and if the person assessing has more questions, they can go knock on the door.
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On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 16:20:17 -0700, snipped-for-privacy@all.costs wrote:

Each of your premises may or may not be true.
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wrote:

of course. nothing in this world is certain.
OTOH, a reference given by a contractor *could* be a ringer.
nothing in this world is for certain...
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