Under $1K TS: Craftsman vs the Green Monster

[loutent]

I went to Sears this afternoon to take a look - in particular at the $950 (list) cabinet saw.

I was a lttle disappointed to tell you the truth. I didn't have a lot of time, but there were a few things that jumped out at me.

The first thing I went for was the Bies fence. Maybe I'm mis- informed, but I was expecting a massive extruded aluminum fence - the Biesmeyer labeled one that had on the machine was some sort of phenolic (I guess the HMW stuff). When I pressed the handle to lock it, the fence front jumped - is that normal? To be honest, the Craftsman fence on the next lower priced "contractor type" saw looked sturdier.

Second, I turned the wheel that controls the blade height. Again, I thought it was a little "dinkey" (?). Not much better than what's on my 15 yr old $300 import.

Although the side handle/knob was missing, I got the impression that the one control wheel adjusted BOTH the blade height and angle - you must pull or push a knob on the side - I'm not sure, but it wasn't what I would call sturdy.

I have been eyeing this saw vs. The Griz 1023S. From what I have seen so far, I think I would get the green monster if I bought one now.

Lou

[FriscoSoxFan]

I think it would take more than a table saw to knock down all 37 feet of green monster.

[Lars Stole]

Much cheaper these days.

While a properly installed Bies may slide slightly when you lock it down if it was not parallel, it should not jump. Perhaps it was not installed properly. Properly installed, the Bies fence is much better than the other contractor fences to which you are referring. The Grizzly 1023 classic fence will certainly be more similar to the Bies than the contractor fences.

Your impression is wrong. There should be two wheels -- one for tilt and one for height. This is what happens when a 16-year old sales clerk puts together the display model.

[Charlie Self]

loutent states:

Almost certainly, the Biese was set up wrong. And if you're expecting aluminum extrusions on a Biese, your expectations are wrong.

Your impression is wrong. And the wheels are sturdier than most, though smaller than those on a full scale cabinet saw.

I'd say you need to do some more thorough checking of both saws before you make a decision, though the odds are excellent that you'll be happy with either one.

Charlie Self "Absolute faith corrupts as absolutely as absolute power." Eric Hoffer

[RonB]

I have owned a 1023S for 2-1/2 years and recently stopped by Sears, got down on my hands and knees and looked inside of the new machine. I don't think they compare well.

If you cannot get to a Grizzly store, give them a call. They will provide the names and numbers of up to 2 people in your area that have made a similar purchase lately. Go take a look a the Griz 1023, especially under the table, and then look at the Sears machine. Also compare the use of plastic vs metal in cabinet and other parts.

If you cannot do this, at least download the 1023 manual from Grizzly and take it to Sears and visually compare the size of the trunnion castings with the Sears. My impression when I open the metal motor cover on my Griz is there is a motor and a lot of cast iron. When I open the plastic door on the Sears machine I see mostly motor, acme screws and smaller amounts of iron.

BTW, The ShopFox Classic fence on the 1023S is not aluminum. It is steel and is solid as a rock.

[Chuck Hoffman]

Someone else already covered the topic but I never rely on a floor sample to be representative of the product...especially in places like Sears. Even Home Depot and Lowes don't always (almost never?) have their machines properly assembled and adjusted.

[loutent]

Hi Ron,

I own a Grizzly 1.5 HP shaper (5+ years now) and it is everything that is advertized. There is no plastic anywhere on this machine. It "feels" like it will last forever - at least in my small hobby/woodworking shop.

This was not my impression with the Craftsman. Before I buy anything, I will definitely have a hands-on look at some recent local Grizzly buyers. Thanks for your suggestion.

I figure the next TS I buy will be the last (gulp!). I want it to last for 20 years or so (as long as I can get my wood up onto it, so to speak).

No hurry with this.

Lou

[Silvan]

Ain't that the truth. One reason I wound up with a Crapsman TS is because I could at least check out the fence. The similarly priced Delta at Lowe's had no fence whatsoever on display.

[GregP]

The Bies fence I saw on the Sears looked like the one I saw at Rockler's on one of the saws they were selling.

The fence didn't "jump" on the sample I looked at.

It looked & felt large enough to me.

There is a second wheel on the left-hand side of the saw. But it is set further back than the ones on other saws I've looked at.

You might want to take a closer look or find another Sears to see what their's looks like.

[Chuck Hoffman]

[Lynette Truitt]

I just went through 2 to 3 months of comparing, bought a Grizzly 3 hp

1023SL and got it set up.

I must say that I am impressed with it. It is rock solid, high powered and was fairly easy to get set up. The fence is extremely sturdy and set up quick. It does not move at all once locked down.

I am upgrading from an old Sears contractor saw that I bought new 20 years ago and have fought many battles with over the years. If you can afford it I would recommend the Grizzly. Both will probably work for you but I can tell you the Grizz has enough power and iron to last forever.

[Bob]

First I've heard about this practice. Does Grizzly get a release for this? Its getting where references are hard to get because of privacy issues. I'm having a roof done by a major company in our area and they said they had to stop giving references because of increased concerns about privacy issues. They can tell you where a house is that they did but will not give a name and number.

Bob

[Bob G.]

Never even looked at the Craftsman saw...so my comments are only on the Biesmeyer Fence...

I have used a Biesmeyer Fence on my saw for almost 15 years.. and it has NO Aluminum parts that I know of.... STEEL only

The sides are faced with a laminate...and after all these years they still look like new...

JUMP... ???? If you have the fence... sitting on the table... loose .. and nowhere close to being parallel to the blade or the miter slots ..

IT SURE WILL JUMP and it will jump into perfect alignment when you push the locking lever down . which btw you only have to lower you do not need to exert hardly any force to lock it down... .

I stopped looking at Fences the day I installed my Bies....just absolutely no need to ...its been a joy to use all these years can't remember how many years ago that I even had to think about adjusting it never ...and I mean never has it locked down in anything but dead on parallel to the blade...

That Said... mine was made long before Delta purchased Biesmeyer and the patient expired long ago so there are plenty of clones on the market

Bob Griffiths

[Charlie Self]

Bob responds:

Grizzly has been doing this for over a decade that I know of.

Sounds like your roofer had some reference problems that weren't to do with privacy.

Charlie Self "It is when power is wedded to chronic fear that it becomes formidable." Eric Hoffer

[Silvan]

Heh... Makes me think. The roofers who did Dad's roof must have read the ad wrong, and they thought the job entailed reefer.

[RonB]

Yes. As I recall, when I ordered the saw they let you click a box on the web order forms giving them permission to use your name and phone#. I did allow it. I used the service prior to my purchase, but have never personally had a call.

[Bob]

Nope. Their word-of-mouth reputation is excellent.

Bo

[Charlie Self]

Bob responds:

Then I don't understand why he can't ask for permission from people for whom he's worked and then use them as references.

Charlie Self "It is when power is wedded to chronic fear that it becomes formidable." Eric Hoffer

[Duane Bozarth]

loutent wrote: ...

Personally, I'd run as fast as I could away from any power Craftsman-branded stuff I could these days...

There was a review of contractor saws in Fine Woodworking just a few issues ago that seemed pretty good...I'm not interested (I've a 20 yr old Model 66) so I don't recall the "best buy" or "favorite" but I'll see if I can find it although you can probably find it following links at

[Bob]

Neither do I, Charlie. I had many meetings with two sales people (I'm doing roof, siding and window replacement). These guys were pretty straight and oriented toward doing first class work with top materials, rather than cutting corners. One of them spent a lot of extra effort doing photos to help us get $4000 reimbursement from previous shingle manufacturer for early failure. The reference situation was a bit offputting. They did drive us around to look at houses they had done in other areas. In the overall picture, they gained my confidence enough to win the contracts and their work thus far is superb (still in progress). They were the only bidders that seemed to understand how much material my weird house would take for materials. They showed up the first day with 100 tubes of caulk.

Bob