Unbelieveable Day!

Great day, today. Warm, eager to be back in the shop, working on the bathroom corner cabinets. I usually have the laptop in the shop, to reference diagrams, but not today.
Went into the house to view the diagrams. The maid is no where in sight. I didn't think anything of it. Walking back to the shop, I heard a saw kick on.... some sort of electrical problem, to automatically turn on, that way?
I approached the shop doorway and saw it happen. The maid sawed her left 4 fingers off, right at the palm. I triaged her and was at the hospital within 15 minutes, with her amputated fingers on ice.
I later found out she had been suicidal and had stabbed herself earlier this week.
Her mother had brought her to work and nothing seemed amiss. We all chatted gingerly, as usual, and we had even gathered some veggies from the garden, for her mother to take home.
I suppose it may be wise to start locking up the shop, even for brief trips away. Makes me wonder and think hard, also, for when the nephews and kids come to visit. No telling what kind of accident or incident may occur, to anyone.
I have NEVER had an accident or incident in my shops, until today. It's very sobering.
Sonny
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On 1/11/2014 9:29 PM, Sonny wrote:

is also called my garage) I never leave the shop with out unplugging all equipment, because there are little boys in the family.
At this time I have to plug the saw into an ceiling outlet as that is the only one large enough to handle the saw.
I will consider how I do things after reading about your maid.
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On Sat, 11 Jan 2014 21:43:06 -0500, knuttle

not working, all equipment power is off. Low voltage remote control for safety shut-down. Requires key to turn power back on. In case of power outage, you need the key to turn it back on. Each machine with contacter switch for the same reason.
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On Sat, 11 Jan 2014 21:43:06 -0500, knuttle wrote:

Same here. In fact I tend to leave all tools unplugged except when I'm using them. No kids, just a wife and my own clumsy self.
--
This msg is for rec.woodworking - not homeowners hub.

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On 1/11/2014 8:29 PM, Sonny wrote:

I hope you are not held responsible.
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I cannot believe it! Never heard of such a thing..... my word....sobering..... john
"Sonny" wrote in message
Great day, today. Warm, eager to be back in the shop, working on the bathroom corner cabinets. I usually have the laptop in the shop, to reference diagrams, but not today.
Went into the house to view the diagrams. The maid is no where in sight. I didn't think anything of it. Walking back to the shop, I heard a saw kick on.... some sort of electrical problem, to automatically turn on, that way?
I approached the shop doorway and saw it happen. The maid sawed her left 4 fingers off, right at the palm. I triaged her and was at the hospital within 15 minutes, with her amputated fingers on ice.
I later found out she had been suicidal and had stabbed herself earlier this week.
Her mother had brought her to work and nothing seemed amiss. We all chatted gingerly, as usual, and we had even gathered some veggies from the garden, for her mother to take home.
I suppose it may be wise to start locking up the shop, even for brief trips away. Makes me wonder and think hard, also, for when the nephews and kids come to visit. No telling what kind of accident or incident may occur, to anyone.
I have NEVER had an accident or incident in my shops, until today. It's very sobering.
Sonny
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On 1/11/2014 9:53 PM, jloomis wrote:

[snip]

Sonny,
Take heart in the fact that the maid will do what the maid will do regardless of what you do to prevent it.
What of her mother who, obviously, knew of the prior attempt. She let her daughter loose upon you to...
I'm retired LE and people do stupid things for stupid reasons and there is simply no way you'll ever stop them ALL.
A person seeking a permanent solution to a temporary problem cannot be reasoned with. At best you'll slow them down and test the limits of their ingenuity.
I recall a burn out we dealt with as a "frequent flyer." His life "ruined" by drugs he was unable to cope and attempts by family, et al. to get him help were insufficient.
Temporary commitments when he'd get to acting out were just that: Temporary!
His folks removed all guns from the house and turned them over to us for safekeeping.
Within three weeks he, a contractor when he worked, solved his problems. He was found in his garage with a Hilti Stud gun in hand and a rather large fastener in his brain.
We thanked the lord, or whomever, that he had that determination and ingenuity rather than getting in his car and plowing head on into another vehicle, a train or bridge abutment thus traumatizing some other individual.
A pity that your maid did not have the same ingenuity or compassion for you.
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On 1/11/2014 9:29 PM, Sonny wrote:

take a hit on insurance .
I hope she recovers well.
--
Jeff

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person and not allow her back on the premises.. And I think it was totally irresponsible to for her mother to drop her off and not give you a heads up.
And take whatever precautions necessary to see that sort of thing never occurs again. I have worked in a number of shops that had a master switch for the shop under lock and key. Figure something out and implement it.
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Sonny wrote:

I'm very sorry to hear what happened. Sorry, I am at a loss for words. It took me 30 minutes to finish this reply, but I would work on it for 24 hours and 30 minutes if I could undo what happened..
Bill
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On 01/11/2014 08:29 PM, Sonny wrote:

she will get the help she needs.
I wouldn't worry to much about doing something to prevent such things, if it hadn't been the table saw it would have been something else.
The knives in the kitchen, shotgun in closet, that spare can of gas... always a way, you can't out clever a crazy person.
basilisk
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On 1/12/2014 7:36 AM, basilisk wrote:

I agree with the above. Our society has decided that by things or laws they can prevent bad thing from happening. It is not going to happen. The only thing the thing and laws do is to prevent efficient operation of the system.
If you do not believe that consider suicide. Most states and communities have laws that in essential make suicide illegal. Has it prevented suicide? No suicide continues at past rates.
This country has been fighting poverty for 50 years, Has it prevented poverty. No Poverty is higher to day than it was when the program was started.
Global warming is another example. There are those who think if it is happening it is our fault and we need to do something to prevented.
In each of the above cases, there is no way we can change the conditions, but throwing money at is is not the answer. May be we should reconsider what was put in to the law by the US Congress which consisted of the men who wrote the Constitution.
"Northwest Ordinance: "Religion, morality and knowledge, being necessary to good government and the happiness of mankind, schools and the means of education shall forever be encouraged" approved by US CONGRESS July 13,1787 of which 41 member helped write the Constitution which was approved September 17, 1787 ."
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Thanks All, for the support.
I almost didn't post of this incident, but decided it may be an element for giving you a heads up regarding your shop's safety, precautions and concer ns, even for the most extreme of circumstance. In cases as this, most folk s are at a loss for words and actions, hence, to some extent, is an aspect of trauma induced shock, even for bystanders.
The trauma, itself, at the time, didn't affect me, having 27 yrs of orthope dic experience. In this profession, one learns to desensitize oneself, in order to keep a cool head, i.e., not be affected by "bystander shock", as m orbid and/or uncaring as this may sound. Not being affected by the trauma actually helps me/one overcome any bystander shock and be able to medically assist effectively and properly, in such cases.
The injury isn't immediately life threatening and subsequent treatment, I e xpect, is well taken care of. A subsequent threat to life would be infecti on or the like.
Future "repercussions" may arise. I am expecting more requests, by the fam ily, for details of the circumstances leading to and of the incident, itesl f, other than the initial "for the medical history" aspect of the incident, itself. Just how indepth "further inquiries" evolve, if persued, remain t o be seen. So for, I haven't heard of any such talk or off-handed comments about further inquires, etc.
The saw that was used was not the table saw, but the Delta Sawbuck, a porta ble circular saw setup, with stand/table, somewhat similar to a RAS. It is set up for trim cutting, for the cabinets I was working on. I often use t his saw outdoors, since there is more space to maneuver and no dust collect ion attached. Other than the table saw and a regular circular saw, this is my most used saw, very versatile.
I'll re-evaluate the shop scenario, in general, but I'll not likely alter t oo much. I'll certainly be more vigilent, about safety, when visitors and relatives come visit, maybe even implement some new rules. I do have a mai n breaker for the shop and will look into how easy it is, will be, to shut down the shop, when not there.
I hope you all learn from this experience, also, especially for when your d ear ones are visiting you.
Sonny
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On 1/12/2014 9:43 AM, Sonny wrote:

Good luck with all that this brings and hopefully you will not be dragged into this further.
So thinking more about shop safety for those that may wander i, during your absence, what if a shop was wired through a central circuit, one that was controlled by a proximity switch/key.
I'm thinking the type used on my wife's car. You only have to have the key fob on your person for the switches on the vehicle to operate. Walk out of range with the key fob and the engine cannot be started, the doors cannot be unlocked, the radio cannot be turned on....
Basically the shop equipment cannot be turned on unless you and your key fob are in the shop too.
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On 1/12/2014 10:08 AM, Leon wrote:

Alas, it's a well known fact that the more you try to "idiot-proof" something, Mother Nature just comes along with a more adept idiot<g>
While yours is a nice idea, I suspect it might tend to be bit complex and expensive for the average wood butcher.
Then, too, when you think of all the various styles, sizes, etc. of "shops" it's probably better not to generalize you solution other than to say: Insure that the equipment is inoperable when it's unguarded (by your presence).
Dedicated shop with a door? Secure means of locking the shop when not in use.
Shop set up with power tools in the garage, an area shared by the whole family? Locks on power cables, lockout on the branch circuit powering same, etc.
Proximity switching, while "neat", is IMHO unnecessary in 99% of the cases. I'm not that lazy that I cannot lock a door or kill the power to equipment in a shop that I might use once a week. Nor, for that matter, am I concerned that some time during the day that I AM using the equipment/shop that when I go into the house to take a whiz that somebody is going to run into the shop behind my back the moment I leave and wreak havoc with those evil tools<g>
As alluded to earlier, YMMV. If you have small kids running around or a mentally unstable maid, you need something different than I do or what suits your neighbor's particular situation.
All you need is simple common sense and an understanding that you cannot prevent everything bad that can happen - only make it difficult.
Darwin will, in the end, prevail.
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On 1/12/2014 10:40 AM, Unquestionably Confused wrote:

this is true.

Probably expensive now, I don't think it exists for this type application. But I don't think it would be complex, I only has to be a single switch before the shop circuit.

Although there is a guy whose maid did just that.

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On 1/12/2014 9:43 AM, Sonny wrote:

Do not want to comment other than to say that the best possible thing you can is to cease and desist any further _online_ comment on this issue immediately!
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On 1/12/2014 7:34 AM, Keith Nuttle wrote:

Precisely and exactly why out lawing guns is not going to stop violence.

The program is working exactly as those that implemented it wanted it to work. It is a total success. The problem with the program is it was sold as a help to those in poverty. It's intent and "by function" result was to make those in poverty dependent on the government. A majority of those being supported by the government are taught to depend on the government for support. Thus poverty grows and the voter base for those in government wanting to do more for the ill educated.
It's the whole give the man a fish and feed him for a day scenario.

Follow the money.

Agreed. Actions which were once considered immoral a few decades ago now have laws protecting those actions, and with morals being tossed out the window too goes our future.
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