Un-necessary conmplication?

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Aaron Neville, one of the old Neville Brothers.
Gerry
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There's more than one? That's not good.
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Dave Hinz wrote:

I did say "sometimes." The little pointy star shaped hole will turn into a useless round hole if the head is corroded enough. Think old car applications. I've mostly seen Torx screws on cars.
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Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan < snipped-for-privacy@users.sourceforge.net>
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Like adding a simple electric circuit to the shop. You need to 3-4 diff. size square drive bits. Why cant they make them the same size? I like square drive, but changing bits to do a simple chore drives me crazy. I just use the phillps when doing electric.

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If you ever need to remove the screw, the Robertson (square-drive) head is *far* easier to use than a slot.

Yabbut... they're not very aesthetically pleasing. :-)
-- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt. And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?
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here's a very short history of the Robertson screw:
http://www.mysteriesofcanada.com/Ontario/robertson_screws.htm
and here's the company's website: http://www.robertsonscrew.com /
They even thought to colour-code the screwdrivers to make the hole sizes easier to remember. "Hey, throw me a red Robertson, willya?"
You can blame Henry Ford's greed and P. L. Robertson's stubbornness if you regret the non-availability in the U.S. even today.
--
"Stay calm. Be brave. Wait for the signs."

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Of Ford's greed, there's little doubt, but I've been buying Robertson hardware for more than a decade in normal retail hardware outlets. The non-availability of which you speak doesn't exist.
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If you mean to say that Robertson screws and drivers became available 10 years ago, then mazel tov! I didn't know that had happened. I suppose that 70 years is enough time for it to catch on.
But, judging by what I have heard in the past, and some of the comments here regarding "Canadian screws" (remember the crowbar story earlier in this thread?) I would say that, in general, Robertson is almost completely unknown in the US.
Am I wrong, folks?
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"Stay calm. Be brave. Wait for the signs."

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Hi Buck:
While I didn't catch the thread you refer to earlier I have been told that such screws are so infrequent in the US that rather than find a screwdriver that will work with them people just use a pry bar to break boxes from Canada apart. That may be Urban Legend but I too am curious.
Richard
Buck Frobisher wrote:

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Frank, I am also in Aurora. Are you the Frank with the antiques refinishing place on Vata Court?
Gerry
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Silvan wrote:

Cher's Fair Well Tour.
The best four words ever spoken/written.
Now, let's see if it sticks.
UA100
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Or be doomed to an eternity of peeling off those ^$%# INDIVIDUAL stickers that now come on every tomato, bell pepper and anything that looks like a vegetable in the supermarket.
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Swingman wrote:

You're supposed to peel those off?
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"Silvan" wrote in message

Well, you can leave them on, but they're real tough to floss off your shiny brites. (not a bad idea, though ... just make them edible and fortified with vitamins).
Besides, like many other "unnecessary complications" in a modern life dictated by corporate whims, they are there for the convenience of the corporation, not the customer.
Ever try to get a modern, small hand tool out of one of those molded, 10 ga plastic, armored "packages" that someone, somewhere, thinks is necessary ... and without another sharp, previously purchased hand tool?
No doubt about it, there is an organized, shadowy effort to aggravate, with seemingly inconsequential roadblocks and potholes, that add up to an increase in daily frustration.
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Swingman wrote:

Well, you can argue both sides of this one. For the convenience of the corporation, yes, by allowing computerized scanning and whatnot. For the convenience of the customer too, though, so your cashier doesn't have to remember 700 PLU numbers, or sit there flipping through a stack of cards every time you bring some wierd Chinese vegetable to the register. Saves you, the customer, time. Having a sticker on everything also decreases your chances of getting charged incorrectly when the cashier doesn't know a winesap from a McIntosh from a red delicious too, or can't tell the difference between celery and cilantro, or lettuce and cabbage.
I've been on the cashier side of that. Especially with Asian customers. Some wad of green. What the hell is this anyway? "It bongchockfojinshooifong kwa." OK, can you spell that? No? Screw it, bananas it is. :)
> Ever try to get a modern, small hand tool out of one of those molded, 10

Yes. The most retarded thing ever. Dad is a tool loser. I bought him a fold-out molded plastic tray full of tools, and he managed to keep track of them for years, until the plastic latch broke on the carrier. So this past December I bought him a new one. I got it at Lowe's. It had quality name brand (for whatever that's worth, since they were all still Chinese) tools in it, and had most of the bases covered, on sale for about $60 I think.
Hammer, knife, screwdrivers, wrenches, the whole nine yards. It was covered in a molded sheet of plastic that was screwed down in about 30 places. A person buying an item like this, an all-in-one set of gift tools, it's a safe bet the person on the receiving end doesn't have any tools. This is the kind of thing you might give your kid when you send him off to college or something. So WTF was the deal with all the screws that I couldn't get out without the screwdriver that was trapped inside by the damn screwes? WTF were they thinking?!

Or, sigh, to reduce theft anyway... That's why the new packaging is such a PITA.
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"Silvan" wrote in message

OK, by gawd ... let's argue. :)
Cashiers worthy of the name were once required to know/memorize produce prices. Now, since the MBA mentality has made it an ultra low wage position, the register is often smarter than the cashier. I am actually inconvenienced more often by waiting for a price check from someone in front of me, or by the need for a "manager" to take some action or other that the cashier can no longer handle.
Net result ... I spend no less time in check out than in the past.

Not when I get them home and start to cook ... I lose any time that might have been saved at check-out getting the damned labels OFF. :)
Besides, the check-out lines are longer than ever because of reduced staffing, more than making up for any saved time by puttting labels on each damn vegetable, the application of same which is built-in to price I must pay ... thanks again to the corporate, MBA mentality.
Net result ... I was much better, in both time and money, with dumber vegetables and smarter cashiers!

As a prudent, price conscious, informed consumer, that's MY job.
I know, I know ... there aren't that many of us left. :)
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*sigh* At the grocery I grew up shopping at, most of the cashiers had pricing for the _entire_ inventory memorized. This was, admittedly, a somewhat 'strange' operation -- they didn't advertise (TV, radio, _or_ newspaper); they rarely had 'sales' (except when they got a 'deal' on special-purchase produce dairy, or meats), etc. And they carried *lots* of brands -- if they had only 4 brands of some item, that was a 'limited' selection. (I was *really* shocked when I moved to the 'big city', and found the "big local operations" typically carried the 'house brand' and *one* other) And this was a local operation, not a national/regional chain. They hired good people, and paid them well. *Lots* of the 'line' help made a career of working in their stores. There was a nearly _two_year_ *waiting* *list*, to get on as a 'bag boy' there.
They were a *long* time putting in computerized bar-code-scanning registers. And a source of *great* frustration to the people selling same. Cuz when the salesdroids came calling, they said "Sure, we'll buy your system, *as* *long*as* it is at least as fast as our current cashiers." They even let the salesdroid pick the store cashier for the "time trials". It _was_ a 'stacked deck', nonetheless. He got to pick from the prime-shift crew, only. Who all had at least 10-15 years on the job. Who could run the register entirely "by touch" with one hand, while shovelling the groceries past with the other hand. Who _didn't_ need to look at a price-tag on _anything_, cuz they knew prices on the =entire= inventory. Who *didn't* even need to turn the item right-side up, or turn it around, to know what the item was. *AND* who, while doing all this, would greet at least 80% of the customers _by_name_, knowing them well enough to be exchanging news tidbits / gossip / etc. *while* running the register full-tilt. It was not uncommon to have _two_ baggers *per*register*, so that bagging didn't slow down the line. <grin>
"Insult to injury", when there was a price difference during the trials, between the proposed computerized system and the 'old fashioned' cashier, it was *usually* the computer that was wrong.
Lots of cash-register salesmen went away *very* frustrated.
I think it was around _1990_, that they *finally* converted. More because the quality of help available had declined, than that the scanners had improved.
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Swingman wrote:

OK, you win.

Seriously, the problem is that you customers know what you're buying, but those of you who are buying the weird stuff don't speak English very well. When I worked at a certain gigantic retailer, we had a staggering array of ethnic foods in the produce department, and I had no clue what most of that stuff was. When the customers told me what it was, it wasn't terribly helpful trying to figure out what that was on the little list.
I'm glad those days are behind me. Worst job on earth. I'd rather wade waist deep in pig shit.
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The worst for me by far is the same packaging for an SD card for a digital camera. The SD card is literally the size of a postage stamp and is enclosed in one of those packages about 12in. by 6in. whose partially ripped edges can turn into a scary sharp weapon which can draw blood. I've never seen anything so stupidly packaged. DAMHIKT
Gerry
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Those packages are easily dealt with on the scroll saw.
wrote:

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