Two Questions

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1 Why is it that the thread on carriage bolts goes the entire length of the bolt but not on hex bolts? 2 What are the differences between hardboard, masonite and tempered masonite? Years ago I used tempered masonite and it was hard as nails. Today when I go into HD and ask for tempered masonite the show me something that is nowhere near what I had previously used.
Thanks for any and all help.
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Because carrage bolts are used with nuts to tighten. Nuts need to be able to screw the entire length. Hex bolts do not require a nut to be tightened and do not have to screw all the way in to something that is threaded to tighten.

Commonly all are the name. Masonite is a brand name for hard board.
Tempered hard board is generally differentiated from non tempered by the green or red stripe on the side of a stack of hard board. If the pieces have a red stripe they are tempered. A Green stripe indicates non tempered. With out that stripe one cannot tell by looking which is which as both varieties differ in color.
Years ago I used tempered masonite and it was hard as nails.

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Leon wrote:

SFWIW, Masonite Corp, located in Tampa, FL quit making "masonite" hardboard over a year ago.
DAMHIKT, it is a long tale.
Lew
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On Wed, 23 Mar 2005 03:25:26 GMT, Lew Hodgett

No doubt some Merkin lawyers involved. IDWTKHYKT (I do want to know how you know this). Inquiring minds want to know. It seem they bought out Stanley's door manufacturing operation, but no mention of hardboard on their North American web sites.
Luigi Replace "nonet" with "yukonomics" for real email address www.yukonomics.ca/wooddorking/humour.html www.yukonomics.ca/wooddorking/antifaq.html
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Luigi Zanasi wrote:

A telephone call to tech service.
Receptionest informed me they sold the buisness a year ago, and could offer none.

They are big in the door business these days, or at least that was what I was told.
Lew
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scribbled:

I woulda guessed Bean Counters... MBA types.
No money in it anymore. Wonder if they lost the patent or the recipe?
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wrote:

Darn it Weegi, that's a monitor clean you owe me. Surely others know the true meaning?
Groggy
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Leon wrote:

No, it's simply a choice of the vendor...many carriage bolts aren't fully threaded...
And a machine (hex) bolt is often used to tie two pieces together so a nut is used just as w/ a carriage bolt. All depends on the application.
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Ok
My reference was such as a machine bolt used for head bolts on an engine. No need to thread the whole bolt when the end is all that will engage the block. But like you said it all depends on the application
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Boy did I misread that initially. I figured I'd missed the thread on carriage bolts altogether. Damn news server, said I. Then I figured it out. Anyway, it depends on the size. There are lots of carriage bolts that don't have full length threads. Conversely, there are some hex bolts that are threaded full length.

I don't know.
--
LRod

Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite
  Click to see the full signature.
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mike wrote:

Your terminology may be a bit off. The typical carriage bolts has a rounded head with a square under it (the square sinks into wood and doesn't turn so a wrench is need on only one end), the shank is smooth and not threaded except for the last inch or so. They are meant to fasten wooden parts together but to leave a smooth surface that won't catch clothing or other objects. A smooth shank is essential to reduce wear; threads the length of the bolt would work in the hole and chew up the wood.
Bolts threaded the full length are termed termed machine screws, machine bolts, stove bolts, etc. depending on the head and the nut and typically are used to hold metal parts together. Of course there are also bolts with a smooth shank and short length of screw that are used for joining metal parts.
Masonite is a brand of hard board. Untempered has a waffle weave on one side and a smooth surface on the other, usually light brown color. Tempered is similar except the smooth side is usually darker and is harder due to the heat and pressure used in tempering. Tempered both sides is usually very dark, almost black, and very hard, almost all the way through a 1/4" thickness. I haven't seen the tempered both sides for some time but it is the best for the bottom of drawers.
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George E. Cawthon writes:

a waffle weave on one side and a smooth surface on the other, usually light brown color. Tempered is similar except the smooth side is usually darker and is harder due to the heat and pressure used in tempering. Tempered both sides is usually very dark, almost black, and very hard, almost all the way through a 1/4" thickness. I haven't seen the tempered both sides for some time but it is the best for the bottom of drawers.<<
Correct. Oddly enough, IIRC Masonite was the originator of tempered hardboard, which is why Masonite has become the generic name for the substance even though the company itself no longer makes the hardboad in its original form (it shapes the stuff now and sells it as doorskins, among other things).
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Charlie Self wrote:

[snip]
The Masonite was also used by cake decoraters - they used the Masonite as the solid plate under the cakes - little frosting like glue and wax paper and the cake stuck in place on the "solid" 1/4" surface. Wonder what they use now?
Josie
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Not necessarily. A description taken from http://www.jollyboard.com/standard.html ,
Appearances : Surface texture is "usually" smooth on one side with a fine mesh pattern on the reverse. Colour ranges from "light gold to dark brown".
Tempered is

Again taken from the site listed above, both temperend and non tempered are heat treated.
Jolly "Oil Tempered" Hardboard is a superior, hard, tough and durable board that conforms to Indian Standard Specification for Fibre Hardboard, 1658-1977 and, British Standard 1142.
"Standard" Hardboard is impregnated with hot cashew oil and resin, and "subsequently heat treated". Cashew oil makes the boards absolutely termite resistant. The resin and heat curing also increase the density of the board-improving it's strength, and water and abrasion resistance properties.
Taken From http://ianrpubs.unl.edu/homefurnish/g1247.htm
Hardboard Hardboard is made from refined wood fibers locked together with adhesives, steam and pressure. There are three types of hardboard: standard, tempered and service.
Standard is strong and has good water resistance. It often is used in furniture construction.
Tempered hardboard has been treated chemically and with heat to increase its stiffness, hardness and finishing properties. It often is used in floors and dividers within drawers or cabinets, and is sometimes used as back panels for cabinets, bookcases and mirrors.
Hardboard may be smooth on both sides or smooth on one side, rough on the other. Hardboard comes in 1/16 inch to 3/4 inch thicknesses and panels of various sizes.
From what I have been told by suppliers and have read in magazine articals the only way for sure to tell if hardboard is tempered or non tempered is by the red or green identification markings on the edge/side of a stack of hard board. As indicated by both sources listed above, hardboard tempered or non tempered may infact have both sides smooth or one side rough, or both tempered or non tempered may or may not be light to dark brown in color.
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There are at least two more ways to tell: tempered is a *lot* harder than standard. And it's noticeably heavier, too.
This doesn't help much if you have only one piece, and you want to know if it's tempered or not... but if you have two pieces, one tempered and one standard, it's pretty easy to tell which is which.
-- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt. And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?
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Perhaps, From what I was told when I used that same analogy is that because hardboard differs greatly in appearance from different oils, chemicals, or wood products that are used and depending on manufacturer and location , the hardness's will also vary quite a bit. Basically if you have different brand hard boards the hardness of one may or may not indicate which you have. If both are from the same manufacturer your method would be more accurate. Either way I would use this method if having to decide which to use but if a specific specification is indicated it would be better to be able to accurately validate.
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You can find both carriage bolts & hex heads with partially smooth or fully threaded shafts - depends on the application as to which one you want to buy. At our local store, I think it's which one is the cheapest this week, unfortunately. A fully threaded bolt is weaker since threading it reduces the shaft. This issue came up last year when I tried to replace a bolt for the tail wheel of a mower. All the store had were fully threaded ones in that size, that day. They can wear more, whether in wood or metal, too.
Personally, after years of dealing with old stuff with carriage bolts in them, I use them only when I have to. If there is any way I can reasonably use a hex head, I do. A little rust, wear or aging & a carriage bolt can be a pain to remove for repairs.
Jim
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Jim notes:

in them, I use them only when I have to. If there is any way I can reasonably use a hex head, I do. A little rust, wear or aging & a carriage bolt can be a pain to remove for repairs.<<
True, but if you can't reach the head side of the bolt...no substitute. Bolt-through ledger boards for decks come to mind. Hard to be both inside and outside, and often the helper is busy elsewhere. Too, if there's a chance a hex head will snag on something the round head of the CB is preferable. Otherwise, I don't see much need--though they are somewhat prettier than hex heads, I guess, and a lot of makers of sheetmetal stands use them (which, as a too frequent tool assembler, I really do appreciate).
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Carriage bolts are always going to have a nut on them, I think. Since you don't know where that'll end up, it's threaded all the way.
A hex bolt usually goes through a drilled hole, and having a non-threaded section gives you more strength and positive location in the axial direction.
Just a thought, kinda winging it, but it makes sense. Annoying sometimes, though.
Dave Hinz
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Dave Hinz wrote:

Well, it's no harder to measure/calculate the length for the bolted pieces for a carriage bolt than a machine bolt... :)

And a machine bolt goes through a non-drilled hole? :)

My observation is that it's a way for the cheaper manufacturers/distributors to minimize the number of sizes kept in stock -- carriage bolts are a lesser quantity item in general and so it's the first to minimize.
The only thing in stock locally now except at the farmers' equity is cheap (and I'm really talking cheap, but <not> inexpensive) imported pos stuff...there are sizes in 1" increments and best... :(
I suppose there's also some reason that the fabrication process makes it cheaper, too, but I don't know precisely how...can't imagine it's done for anything other than cost, however.
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