TV Woodworking Shows--What hapened?

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What has happened to the woodworking shows? I live in the NE in the summer and Florida in the winter. Up north I have Direct TV (satellite) and in FL I have Comcast cable. I get most of the premium channels including DIY (premium on satellite) and NPR which is not premium (paid for with tax dollars and you still get the same amount of ads plus two weeks a year of bugging you to send them yet more money. New Yankee Workshop and David Marks used to appear regularly. They were great to watch even in you didn't like Norm's approach or were annoyed by Marks' insistence on making a template for every single thing he did. On Comcast I only find This Old House--no NYW and on DIY they rerun David Marks every week for the umpteenth time. Stupid channels only copy one another with idiot shows depicting warehouse battles, creative scrapbooking or how to macrame. Seems to me that with the number of woodworkers in the country they are missing a huge market. Talk about a "wasteland." Apart from the movies (most of which are PPV) there seems to be less quality content than when there were only 3 or 4.
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http://thewoodworkingchannel.com /
The idiots deciding what shows to run have a nasty habit of showing the same 10 shows over and over and over again. While that's great for someone trying to memorize a show (that's what recording devices are for), it's terrible for someone watching the show for its entertainment value.
Puckdropper
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David Marks contract with the DIY folks wasn't renewed, so, at least for the foreseeable future, there will be no more new Woodworks programs. David came and spoke at our wooddorkers' club, showed some of his really neat stuff, and said he was of two minds about not doing any more work for those folks. Some of what he showed got to be repetitive, because you can only do so much in 18 minutes air time, really.
Norm's new stuff in on PBS here, which I get as part of the locals package on DirecTV. Whether you like the choices they've made is another discussion. There are at least 5 PBS stations shown in the SF Bay Area local package.
Florida for the winter has to have at least one downside beyond tourists. Maybe Comcast cable tv is that downside. ;)
Patriarch
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Joe:
NPR which is not

You probably read the answer about Dave Marks. It was decided some time ago, that he was going to halt. Anyways, I'll give you my view about NPR. First off, each station in the NPR network, decides its schedules. If they want to drop NYW or TOH, it's up to them. Your local stations probably do viewer profiles and got a feeling that these shows don't draw an audience big enough to serve.
The NPR stations get money from YOU and the Feds. That's why they beg. I don't like it,but the other alternative is do what a lot of other nations do - tax you and they hand out the dough. If you would contact your local stations, about the shows, (a letter might work), it would register better than protesting in a news group. (just my 2 cents).
Now NYW and TOH are owned either jointly or outright by Time Warner and Marsh Productions. They sell the SHOWs to your local friendly NPR channel. The local channel has to PAY them. The Gov't doesn't own the production or pay the "stars", etc. I would imagine that each show is in the neighborhood of about $250,000 to produce. That means, writing, scripting, editing, on air talent, directing, etc. Probably even more. A lot of money to recover!
I think over time, a lot of these shows are going to be available on a subscription basis over the Internet. Already, you can see "Lost" episodes a week after they are broadcasted and there will be more of this. I would imagine that Marsh and Time-Warner are trying to figure out how to get their content (their shows) into the public more and make more money. Would you pay $1.99 to download an episode to your computer and watch it? If you would, drop the show's owners a line.
Bottom line, if you don't like what you see, let your cable and satellite company know!
MJ Wallace
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On 30 Jan 2007 23:28:46 -0800, " snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com"

Uh where do you think the money the feds give them comes from?
As for the "other alternative", the "other alternative" is to pull the plug on them. With more than a thousand channels available on just about any cable system, why do we need one more that's government subsidized?

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wrote:

And all of those channels are paid for and supposedly making a profit through the advertisers and are popular enough with the viewers to stay on the air. PBS and similar "public" stations simply are not, they would fail in a minute if they were left to their own devices.
They shouldn't get a penny of federal funding, period. If enough people don't want to watch them, then why bother having them around to begin with? I'm sure channels like DIY would be more than happy to pick up TOH and NYW first-run.
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On 2007-01-31 11:12:49 -0600, Brian Henderson

How much money for "public" stations comes from the government? Not a whole lot anymore. How much free money do other stations receive? Great gobs of it depending how you calculate the subsidies, handouts and propaganda payoffs.
Your analysis reminds me of the sort of spin conservative talk radio progpagates. It isn't reality based but it sure is emotionally satisfying.
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Closer to reality than people who speak of "avoiding taxes" and "not paying a fair share" and "corporate welfare" as if money were never earned, only granted by government denying that moneys diverted from the revenue stream are as much a subsidy as money allocated.
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You wouldn't mind then, if this conservative asks you for some facts to back up your assertions. Also a few definitions should be in order; for example what the @#$% is a "propaganda payoff"? ... and "free money"? A little documentation regarding federal subsidies to network television stations would be in order as well.
Seems that, as someone pointed out earlier the $300+ million going to public television is not exactly chump change coming from the federal government. My guess is that number does not include money funneled through various colleges that support production of various programming for public television.

Well, most conservative talk radio seems to deal with more facts than the wild assertions you are making above. Although I can certainly see your point, given how incredibly successful the conservative candidates were this past election cycle, one would expect huge propaganda payments to be flowing into those other stations.
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On Thu, 01 Feb 2007 20:02:08 -0700, Mark & Juanita

It's something he made up. What do you expect from liberals?

The simple fact is that public television cannot compete in a free marketplace. If it was left to it's own devices and required to have advertising to support it, it would be off the air in 3 months. There simply aren't enough people watching it to make it a viable commercial entity. You know something? Maybe this relic of the 50s should go the way of the dinosaurs. If it cannot compete in the free market, it shouldn't exist at all.

Again, what do you expect from liberals? They're always long on emotion and short on facts.
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For one thing, believe it ot not, not everyone has cable or satellite. Of those 1000 channels, how many have locally oriented programming that really means anything to your community? In my city, the local commercial channels have news shows a couple times a day where they pretty much repeat headlines from the local paper. They do a credible job with the weather but as far as any depth of reporting on local news & events, forget it. OTOH, the public TV station & NPR radio station have real and detailed local content for a signifcant part of their programming day and the national programming they carry is often of a type that is simply no longer played on commercial stations. They do have some ads but in length, quality, and content, they are nothing like the obnoxious advertising on the commercial channels.
If you examine the FCC policies and regulations it is apparent ALL broadcasters & spectrum users are subsidized, perhaps some less directly than others, but on the whole the system is very much geared towards providing benefits to business rather than the consumers. I don't believe that the small amount of federal funding public radio and TV receives is misspent. Public broadcasting provides a valuable service, at least in my area. If these stations had the plug pulled, it is highly unlikely that commercial broadcasters would step up to replace that.
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Contentment makes poor men rich. Discontent makes rich men poor.
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On Thu, 1 Feb 2007 03:32:12 +0000 (UTC), snipped-for-privacy@sdf.lNoOnSePsAtMar.org (Larry) wrote:

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So, the conservatives have AM radio (with the exception of the failing Air America--failing even with George Soros and his megabuck contributions) and the liberals have Corporation for Public Broadcasting paid for with your tax dollars + Hollywood and its mindless Jane Fonda types. Wonder who's getting the long end of that stick? Hmm. Let me see if I can figure it out.
Joe
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I thought NPR was National Public Radio. I didn't know they also broadcast television shows.
Or did you mean to refer to PBS, the Public Broadcasting System which does provide telecasts of Norm Abrams' New Yankee Workshop and a woodturning show. I just found the woodturning show and it is different from the woodturning show on DIY.
I thought the David Marks' woodworking show was a DIY network series. Did his show ever appear on PBS or NPR? :-)
It appears it will be a dry season for woodworking shows.
John Flatley
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On Wed, 31 Jan 2007 10:48:05 -0500, "John Flatley"

NPR and PBS are both supported by CPB.

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J. Clarke wrote:

J. Clarke wrote:
> NPR and PBS are both supported by CPB.
So?
The 2007 US Federal budget is about $983B (that is billion with a B). The CPB budget is about $347M (million with a M).
The math works out to about 0.036% of the total budget. That is a rounding error.
In the era of $250M Alaskan bridges to nowhere there are far more appropriate targets for your energy and anger other than the CPB.
Try taking a look here for some more egregious targets for your zeal.
http://thebudgetgraph.com /
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Try not to obfuscate. The government also supports by lost taxes on donations, and many states give a direct tax credit. Then there are the sponsors who supply production money - for a write-off ... goes on and on.
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Not sure what the point is. First off, the tax deductions are controlled by individuals, not by government. In that, you chose to send money to whoever you want to - religious or other charity organizations. So to claim that these groups GET support from the government because you get a deduction on your taxes, is odd. Tho, in a way, I could see it as making sure that SOME of YOUR money is diverted from the federal budget to your local charity. If that's what you mean, I agree. But where I disagree is that in some way means that there is support from the federal government because of tax deductions is a bit hard for me to follow.
The product placement is the "price of admission" for Delta or other corporations to contribute to the PRODUCTION (I bet) of the show. There might be SOME money coming to the local stations, but I would think it would be in the reduced cost of buying the series. If your local PBS station got NYW for $200g for the season WITHOUT Delta's ads or for $100g WITH the ads, guess which one they will chose?
MJ Wallace
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On 31 Jan 2007 18:02:29 -0800, " snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com"

What you're missing is that the government decides what is and is not a charity eligible for deductible donations. By deciding that PBS or NPR stations are eligible they are willingly foregoing tax revenue.

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I understand that, but were you making the point that federal tax dollars in some indirect way (thru tax deductions) were flowing to PBS stations? If so, I disagree. Listing as a tax deductable non-profit org. is a listing on the federal tax register. No money goes to my favorite charity or non-profit unless I MAKE it so. The government is neutral. It doesn''t care less if I give to a religious or save-the-whales org. There's no direct support other than how YOU decide.
The bottom line, the PBS station in your area needs your money more than it needs the feds money. Most stations, I believe have bigger payrolls, rents, insurance then what the fed provides.
MJ Wallace
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