TV Stand Project and Cabinetry

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On Wed, 09 Jan 2013 19:18:17 -0500, Bill wrote:

I built one with several component shelves so I left about a 3/4" gap at the back of each shelf so the hot air could get to the escape at the top.
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Looking quite nice. A hint here. You mention that you left the construction/measure lines visible to indicate where internal features are located. You called x-ray. There is actually an x-ray icon normally at the top that will actually show an x-ray view of your drawing. Located just left of the icons that turn your color/materials off and on. The actual x-ray view is normally better if you turn the color off and view in the grey two tone mode. If you are not aware of the icon try it out. It actually makes placement of lines and or components easier when you don't normally have a clear view of where to reference attachment.
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On 1/9/2013 6:22 AM, Bill wrote:

Looking very good, Bill.
It's totally a matter of taste, and suit yourself, but I would put the wider rails of your face frames on the bottom, not the top.
Also, you might want to consider making a similar base to this, with six adjustable feet, for the TV unit to sit on:
https://picasaweb.google.com/111355467778981859077/EWoodShopTexasTansu2005#5669704288278669858
A base of this type would provide support for your span; make a nice visual transition from the face frame; and would easily support six adjustable feet (one in each corner, and two in the middle, front and back) that would insure that the unit sits solidly on an uneven floor without detracting from the visual aspect.
Although, this one is a bit more fancy with the curves, it gives the appearance of having four feet, and if you do it like this, you will only need four adjustable feet.
Here's the casework:
https://picasaweb.google.com/111355467778981859077/EWoodShopDiningRoomHutch2009#5663816516513022130
Here's the casework with base attached:
https://picasaweb.google.com/111355467778981859077/EWoodShopDiningRoomHutch2009#5663816532739249570
Here's what the base looks like from bottom side:
https://picasaweb.google.com/111355467778981859077/EWoodShopDiningRoomHutch2009#5663816543789641538
Here's the whole enchilada trimmed out:
https://picasaweb.google.com/111355467778981859077/EWoodShopDiningRoomHutch2009#5663816649603519954
Concept drawing, showing a wider unit than yours, sitting on a base with four adjustable feet, with a whole lot more weight and longer span to contend with:
https://picasaweb.google.com/111355467778981859077/EWoodShopDiningRoomHutch2009#5664536626288014658
And, so you can orbit around something completed, here's the same model I used to collaborate with the client, who lived a few hundred miles away, for both the design and fabrication of the dining room set I made for her:
http://sketchup.google.com/3dwarehouse/details?mid c4558167d08ac659b0e787f72ad393&prevstart=0
Just some more ideas to play around with.
BTW, congratulation on your modeling. You are obviously becoming quite proficient with SketchUp and it shows, AND, as we see here, it gives you the ability to benefit with a bit of collaboration and swapping of ideas.
Whichever way you go, you're doing good ...
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Swingman wrote:

You are very kind. Thank you for sharing so many ideas from your work.
Bill
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Swingman wrote:

https://picasaweb.google.com/111355467778981859077/EWoodShopDiningRoomHutch2009#5663816516513022130

https://picasaweb.google.com/111355467778981859077/EWoodShopDiningRoomHutch2009#5663816532739249570

https://picasaweb.google.com/111355467778981859077/EWoodShopDiningRoomHutch2009#5663816543789641538

I alternated looking at picture 3 and 4 of the base for at least a half hour before I figured out how complicated, or simple, the base really is depending on one's point of view. At first I thought the cabinetry rested on top of the base (silly me!) Really remarkable construction (and evidently rock-solid).
If there are any other newbes reading who like cabinetry, I suggest they not pass up this great lessson (and I think it's a tough one).
BTW, I don't think you learn technique like this at the table saw... and I just proved that you don't need a table saw to learn this technique. Wonderfully satisfying "solution"...
Bill
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On 1/12/2013 1:24 AM, Bill wrote:

This was a commissioned piece for a client who lives about 150 miles from here. Last thing I want to do is to get a call from a client in the future with a problem, so I tend to overbuild with a belt and suspenders approach. I don't mind being invited back to "touch" years and more down the road, but certainly never want to go back for a "fix" of any kind.
This particular piece your were talking about above, the base is an integral part of the bottom, and was actually built around, and attached to, the bottom cabinet as it was applied.
On the first example in the previous post (Tansu stack-able cabinets), the base and the bottom cabinets are separate units, to make it easy to move around, and facilitate stacking the parts in different configurations:
https://plus.google.com/photos/111355467778981859077/albums/5669704268273941697/5669704373306878306
Both bases are built with the same approach, one that is certainly not my invention, but an old one which I basically copied/picked up from a cabinetmaker I had to good fortune to work with in England for a while, whose family had been in the business for a few hundred years.
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The first time you showed this it went in my saved file. When my destruction team of Samoyed brothers are gone, now 13, I will be redoing the kitchen where they have chewed the corners of drawers, and eaten thru one wall. I know the floor isn't level so this is an elegant solution.
Mike M
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Swingman wrote:

-- Thank you for including that little morsal! In my mind, I had been struggling to make the case fit the base. Given what can go wrong at assembly, it seems like the dado groove for the floor should be cut just a tad deep (less than 1/16" say), so that the corners of the base can meet perfectly. Is that reasonable thinking?

https://plus.google.com/photos/111355467778981859077/albums/5669704268273941697/5669704373306878306

--- But the latter one just has a rebate to hold the carcase right? Or did you add more wood to the base (like in the "belt w/suspenders" approach?) The hardware that you used in the corners of the first example appears stronger than the 2 pieces of wood (which appear just butt-jointed together) under the levelers in the 2nd example (which I assume have the same reinforcing intent). Is anything else reinforcing the corners of the base that I can't see, like biscuits?
Maybe you have a hunch what the next incarnation of my TV-Stand will look like?
The only other new thing that occured to me is that for an inset cabinet door, a hungarian hinge attaches to the inside wall, I believe. Presently my "inside wall" is also the end of my case and will be a about 2 inches away or so. I assume that there is a hinge for an inset cabinet door that attaches to the back and edge of the faceframe. I need to learn more about them. Classes resume Monday, so I can mostly just think and draw for the time being anyway. A detailed SketchUp parts diagram will be a reasonable short term goal. I won't comit to a design until I locate my hinges! I feel like I made some big steps this week!
Cheers, Bill

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On 1/12/2013 10:45 PM, Bill wrote:

Yes, if I understand your question correctly.
In this one below, the cabinet/casework simply sits upon the ledge formed by the rabbet in the removable base, but you still want a reasonably close fit for the visual aspect, but with a bit of wiggle room for ease of use, say 1/8" all around:
https://picasaweb.google.com/111355467778981859077/EWoodShopTexasTansu2005#5669704288278669858
This type of base is easy to make because you can route/cut rabbets in long pieces the stock you use for the sides, then "cut to fit with miters" the base sides, just as you would with trim on a table top.
I do like to reinforce the corners of this type of base, either with wood blocks, angled corner braces of wood, or, as in the photo, I used leftover metal corner braces from a previous project ... suit yourself.

In this one, instead of a rabbet edge for the casework to sit on, I simply used a 1 x 2 x 3/4 "ledger board", glued and screwed to the back of the base sides:
https://picasaweb.google.com/111355467778981859077/EWoodShopDiningRoomHutch2009#5663816543789641538
The idea in both examples is to form a ledge for the cabinet/casework to sit upon.
I prefer this method when the superstructure will be very heavy and I want the base to be an integral part of the structure.
You decision entirely, based on your design.

That "ledger board" is mitered in the corners, and glued and screwed to the visible sides of the base, as well as the spacer blocks for the levelers ... no butt joints. ;)
IOW, by gluing all these components to the four sides of the base itself, you are effectively making a single component out of all the parts.
My rationale for making an effort to create a "single component", is that I like to transfer all weight to the floor/ground in as straight and direct a manner as possible, just as you would do with beams and headers in a construction project.

Yes ... when I do mitered corners in furniture and casework of any kind, I always reinforce the inherently weak miter joint in some manner; in this particular case with biscuits, because I own a plate jointer.
Doing so makes it easier to align during assembly and glue-up, and you do indeed get added strength from the biscuits in this application (regardless of what some will proclaim to the contrary).
You could also use any of the other traditional methods to reinforce miter joints ... splines, etc.

Absolutely do all your research and choose, and insure availability of your hinges and slides well before you decide upon a final design.
You've come a long way toward getting the idea handsomely, Bill! :)
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+1 for everything. Gave me the best idea yet of how to attach the shelves of my coffeetable ...
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Best regards
Han
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Bill,
Not sure if you know this but you can export an image of your project without the menu buttons by using File > Export > 2D Graphic.
This allows you to create an image of whatever view is on your screen at the time without cluttering up the image. You can choose 4 different formats for the image (jpg, tif, bmp, and png).
Hope this helps.
Steve
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-Steve- wrote:

I didn't know that, and it will definitely help. Thank you!
BTW, are you the Steve from Indiana who teaches woodworking classes?

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at
Nope. Southern California.
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On 12/2/2012 9:35 PM, Bill wrote:

Bill the cabinets that I have been making lately, the last 14 cabinets in the past 2 years actually have front and back face frames. I did not use screws on the face frames but did use Domino's for the front and or a combination of lap joint and domino on the back face frames. All face frames mate with the carcase via dadoes in the mating sides.
You mentioned that this all has to fit the outer faces of the carcase and that is very true. There is nothing wrong with using pocket hole screws except with my back face frames the screws would show from the front side. Additionally when you use pocket hole screws you are pretty much locked into the where every thing fits when it comes time to mate the carcase and the face frames. With Domino's you can use a wider mortise setting so that you have a little wiggle room. Basically I dry fit the carcase and also dry fit the face frame on top to insure it will all fit together. I then remove the face frame and glue it together, place it back on top of the of the dry fit carcase using waxed paper in between to keep them from sticking to each other. With slightly over sized mortices for the Domino's I get a little wiggle room, 1/8" or so. While this does not seem like a lot of wiggle it is often a great help especially when a single cabinet may have as many as 16 dadoes in the carcase and both face frames that all have to come together. Typically the wiggle room aids in assembly and disappears once all the pieces are in place and the clamps have every thing fitting as it should be while the glue sets. It is imperative that that your measurements and cuts are accurate and where they need to be.
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Leon wrote:

Let me see if I understand what you are saying. If you were going to make two FFs, you would glue and fit them to a dry-fit carcase, and then glue (or pocket hole screw) the carcase and the FFs together the next day?
With slightly over

It occurred to me today that I either need pre-dimensioned wood, or need to hand or machine-joint my Cherry wood that I haven't got yet. I have collected quite a few hand planes.
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On 12/3/2012 6:16 PM, Bill wrote:

Close ;~) No screws at all. The carcase parts are fitted with dadoes also. I glue the front face frames together on the dry fit carcase, turn all that over and do the same with the back face frame. Then I pull the face frames off, front and back, glue the dado of the carcase sides, top, and bottom, and glue all of that to the front and back face frame dadoes at one time. I usually use 12~16 clamps to sandwich all of that together.

Yes you absolutely want stock that is precisely the size you think it is.
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Somehow I came upon a site describing "partial inset doors" and acquainted myself with the terms: inset, lip and reveal (thanks Larry Jaques--that last term helped me get started). I learned inset and lip of 3/8" are pretty standard as is a 1" reveal (maybe that's more standard on kitchen cabinets, than tv-stands?)
I found I was able to view (through Google) dozens, if not hundreds or more, or various pictures of cabinet doors. At this point I don't see how I could settle for cabinet doors I didn't have to agonize over! I hope this helps someone spill their morning cofee! It makes me laugh, sort of.
It's all fun and games until noticing that one end of the table is 3/4 of an inch higher than the other end! : )
Bill
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Jewelcome.
Bill OBSESSING? Whoda thunk it? <g>

Helps with the runoff during a rainfall, right? What, you say it doesn't rain in your living room? Oh. That could be a problem. Measure the legs, cut to fit, sand to dewobble. If you have a large assembly table, you can stick an 80grit PSA pad down, set the table on the assy table, and rub the long leg over it a few times, then move over 'til the legs are all on the table. Repeat until wobble goes away.
-- ...in order that a man may be happy, it is necessary that he should not only be capable of his work, but a good judge of his work. -- John Ruskin
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Larry Jaques wrote:

I think the "Kid-in-a-candyshop" analogy fits pretty well. Lots of oohing and ahhing! : )
My mom used to hand us kids the Sears catalog, and tell us to pick something out. Like the Red Rider BB-Gun, with the compass in the stock.
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On 12/5/2012 11:22 PM, Bill wrote:

Be careful now ...these days about the only thing in the kitchen cabinet business that screams "CHEAP" louder than lipped (partial inset) cabinet doors is attaching a fake stile to one lipped door in a two door cabinet. :)
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