TS not aligned correctly--but only on miter cuts???

Hello all,
Having run out of ideas for the moment, I would like to pick the minds of the group. I have been searching for the answer with google, but not sure if I am finding the right ones.
For some background info, I had several posts awhile back about the Grizzly G0444Z TS which I ended up getting. Like it a lot. Thought it was set up properly and have been using it to do some remodeling around the house.
The problem: Recently had occasion to make 45 degree miters to put up some chair rail. Making the cut with the face of the trim up on a crosscut sled (which seems to cut square to about 1/32" in about 6 or 7' using a 5 cut test). Once I did some test cuts to get 45 degrees correctly, I looked at the piece and noticed that it looked off. Set a square (which is pretty square) on the edge of the trim with the other arm across the cut I just made...big gap on one edge (seriously around 1/16" or more in about 3"). WTF??? A straight cut produces no noticable gap across the cut edge, so why would the miter cut?
Finished my cuts by making the sled fence square to the blade and making the cuts. Is this the only answer? A fence that is not square to the blade once you tilt the blade?
The blade measures parallel to the miter slots, although now it is not since I have been messing with the under works to try to solve this issue. Thought maybe it needed a shim in the trunnion mounting bolt. But a shim in the one that seemed appropriate to move the alignment of the blade to throw things more in alignment. Did not change the outcome at all.
Sorry for the long post, not sure what to check or what to change. Although I do need to realign the blade parallel to the miter slots again now from fussing with the trunnion bolts in the rear of the saw. Many thanks in advance.
Jeff
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Jeff,
Obviously there are several things that can cause your miter cuts to be off and it sounds like you're aware of the most probable alignment problems. But let me give you a couple of simpler things to look for after you get the alignment done and find you still have the same problem.
1. Are you using a thin-kerf blade ? If so, when it hits the stock does the blade start to flutter a little ? If so, add a 4" or 5" stabilizer to the blade or better yet - use a 1/8" kerf blade (60-80 tooth).
2. Is your stock slipping as it goes thru the blade ? The tiniest amount of slippage will create a gap. Get a roll of self-stick sandpaper and add it to your miter fence face and also clamp the stock down.
3. Any slop in your miter gauge or sled that would allow it rotate slightly ? It doesn't take much to get a gap in a miter cut....
You'll probably find that its a combination of all the above plus your alignment and then add in your shop made sled and you can get real confused - quickly. So do the alignment procedures by the book and pay attention to the details.
Bob S.

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Thanks for the reply,

I am using a full or 1/8" kerf blade, although it is only a 40 tooth.

I don't think it is, I will try a clamped cut when I get things parallel again.

Could be just the slightest bit of side to side slop, but not too much I hope.

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You're making the cut with the blade tilted? Try with a fence at 45 on your sled, sandpaper on the fence, deathgrip on the piece, and either register firmly and consistently toward the blade or away to compensate for gage slop.
Then tell me why you're not coping those moldings.

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Outside corners?
Barry
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wrote:

We have a winner folks.
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On 17 Jun 2004 05:50:08 -0700, snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com (Jeff) vaguely proposed a theory ......and in reply I say!:
remove ns from my header address to reply via email
Moot, but are you cutting a mitre or a bevel? Is the blade tilted to do this (bevel)?
My saw measures dead accurate to the slots if at 90 deg but is out by 1/64th across the blade if I tilt to 45 deg. Having a hate affair with the saw at the moment, so I am not sure if I can fix this.
To add to that I also have had trouble with mitre cutting as you describe, even though I have clamped etc.
Have you tried cutting a similar sized piece of MDF (non coated with plastic)? I get good cuts from that, but not from timber. I can only conclude that the timber is warped, or bent.

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(Jeff) vaguely

It is a miter cut

I have not tried this, don't actually have any laying around. If I don't get better results with the new alignment, I will try that, good tip.

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(Jeff) vaguely

it is a miter cut

Have not tried this, but will have to pick up a piece of the stuff if I don't have better results with the new alignment. good point

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To correct that you need to shim the table. This is a tune-up item which almost always needs attention, but seems to be always missed in the literature. You will need to shim either the front or the back of the table to get the table level with the trunion. It can be a trick to get it level and aligned with the slots and you will need to start from scratch with your tune-up. I suggest shimming it first to figure out what's needed, then with the shims in place work on alignment with the miter slots.
-- Bill Pounds http://www.billpounds.com/woodshop

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started from scratch doing the setup again last night and this morning.
So it turns out that I was not using a thick enough shim. The manual said "use very thin shims..." Ended up with a large washer under the rear trunion bolts. Seems to measure much closer to parallel now at 90 and 45 degrees than before. Although absnet a dial indicator, I have a nice scale with 64th markings. Cannot see a difference in the measurements now.
Was a bit early for a test cut before going to work, but I think it will turn out favorable this weekend. If not, I will be cursing the saw here on monday. Till then.
Jeff
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started from scratch doing the setup again last night and this morning.
So it turns out that I was not using a thick enough shim. The manual said "use very thin shims..." Ended up with a large washer under the rear trunion bolts. Seems to measure much closer to parallel now at 90 and 45 degrees than before. Although absnet a dial indicator, I have a nice scale with 64th markings. Cannot see a difference in the measurements now.
Was a bit early for a test cut before going to work, but I think it will turn out favorable this weekend. If not, I will be cursing the saw here on monday. Till then.
Jeff
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Well, the saga continues. Made all the adjustments and fired the saw back up, LOTS of vibration, I mean a lot. Shut it off and started to scratch my head. Found a bolt in the sawdust pile inside the saw that belonged in the top of the arbor assembly according to a lengthy search in the saw's manual. Put that back in, still some vibration (more than there used to be).
The vibration is when the saw is under no load at 90 degrees. I can completely stop the vibration by pushing down on the rear support bar for the guard/splitter which is coming out of the rear trunnion area. Nothing is loose after the adjustments, there is no noticable slop, any ideas on the newest bit of fun??
Thanks again.
For what its worth, a 45 degree miter cut comes out square now, guess that is an improvement.
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On 23 Jun 2004 06:55:52 -0700, snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com (Jeff) wrote:

I've kinda lost track of what part is sloppy, but most of the adjustable parts should be just tight enough to have no slop but not tight enough to have resistance when used. then lube them.
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Well, to all who gave suggestions, thanks. The problem has been fixed. I tried redoing the trunion bolts and making sure that things were snug before bolting down, no help on the mystery sound and vibration. Then it hit me while I was half asleep the other morning, the blade stop for the vertical position had sheared off earlier and it seemed that having it back in would provide the same type of holding force that I could make stop the noise by pushing to the side on the back of the splitter. Worth a try anyway.
So with a new bolt, the saw runs quietly again. Everything lined up well now. Tested it for many cuts while putting down hardwood floors over the long weekend. Made probably 100 cuts and no odd noises.
Thanks again.
Jeff
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