It sounds like a great idea but in practice it would be very difficult (and expensive) to administer. Again, it requires the dealer to do work. It might increase prices (to cover carrying costs). And, it does nothing to attract the dealer that doesn't currently offer the products.
It really is a difficult problem to solve. My goal isn't just to give out discounts. And, I'm not just looking to increase sales. I'm trying to develop a strong and loyal dealer channel and I really don't have a whole bunch of money to do it. I realize that rebates have some negative sentiment associated with them but they do seem to hit most of the bases.
Be assured that no offense was intended, or to insinuate that you were doing any "scamming" yourself.
That notwithstanding, the connotation of the phrase "mail-in rebate" does seem to incite strong opinions/feelings in more than one of us.
Anyway, good luck, understand your predicament, hope lots of folks take you up on your "dealer incentive" program, and look forward to using your product.
I certainly did not reach that conclusion from what Leon wrote.
Note that you specified that a rebate (from the factory, i.e. yourself) could be obtained if one purchases your product via a new dealer. Here, you are asking potential customers to line up new dealers for you (yes, I know it costs lots of dinero to hire a sales organization and visit each of those dealers independently), but face it, you're asking potential customers to do _you_ a favor.
Many folks, as Leon and other have pointed out, don't find rebate offers compelling, and some even avoid such product.
So, after stating so, you attack him. That's not a good route towards building a customer base, is it?
I would certainly call your reply to Leon argumentative.
"Ed Bennett" wrote in message news: snipped-for-privacy@w3g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
You asked, At age 17 I began my working life doing so part time in an automotive retail/tire store, Ameron Automotive Centers, a division of Kelly Springfield/Goodyear, while finishing high school and attending college. At age 21 I was awarded the management position of one of the stores in Houston with the same company. My store was one of 300 stores through out the country. At age 22 and for more pay I was hired by BF Goodrich as an assistant manager. At age 23 I was hired to join a group to open a new Oldsmobile dealership in Houston. I was hired to start up and run the Parts Department. At age 28 I was promoted to Service Sales Manager in the same company. At age 31 I was promoted to a newly formed position as Parts Director over the Oldsmobile and newly acquired Isuzu franchise. At age 33 I was hired to be the GM of an AC/Delco wholesale distributor. At age 40 I retired from that business and the automotive profession and no longer have to work. The last job offered and paid excellent retirement benefits and gave me a first hand education as to what true customer service is all about, and how it can make or break a company. Through the direct actions of the two owners, this small company that made the owners millionaires and afforded me the opportunity to retire at 40, closed its doors after being in business for 25 years, 6 years after I left. The company which had no debt was not sold. While I was there the company enjoyed its best sales with annual sales reaching $3.4 million. In addition to the owners and I, we had
6 employees. Two years later I started my own small furniture design and construction business to keep me busy. I have been doing this for the past
10 years. Lastly, as of Wednesday of last week I cordially withdrew my name from an offer to open and manage a well known nationally recognized wood working supply store. Having sent my resume in to inquire about a possible part time job to add variety to my week I went to the interview only to find out that I was being strongly considered for the store manager position. I did not want to give up my present business for a FULL time job.
I know that they are happy per comments by many here on this news group.
I would say for the customers that you have sold to that you have a high level of both.
I am "familiar" with your product line. Not knowing the full range of your line I could not guess as to whether you have repeat business.
Again, only being familiar with your products I can only respond with a reasonable answer. Any business person should look for the easiest solutions however the customer should always be the first consideration when making changes to a company policy or the way it interacts with its customers. Sometimes a simple solution for you may affect your bottom line negatively if the customer gets less than what he feels is fair. There is a fine line between what is considered by you as an acceptable loss of customers and what is not acceptable.
No, No, and Yes, at times.
Ed, because you are mostly seen here sporadically and because you are often mentioning your product here on this group I get the impression that you come here more to sell vs. be a regular active participant to discuss IYHO the best way to finish a product, where to get the best deals on hardware, and so on. Because you do offer sound advice even though it is often centered around your products this is fine with me. Same goes for Steve Knight. We each use this group in a way that each of us feels is best for us as individuals. Perhaps not as apparent I too have benefited from receiving repeat jobs/customers through this news group. Anyway, it has always been my experience that customer satisfaction is the ultimate goal. With customer satisfaction and positive interaction with "yet to be customers", comes new customers and money. I know that profits are important however sales come first. With out sales, there are no profits. With increased sales come more opportunities to generate larger gross profits margins. IMHO common mail in rebates do not generate enough increase in sales to offset a possible loss of long term customer loyalty. Often rebates are offered by the manufacturer to help the retailer move the obsolete or over priced product off of the shelves to make way for a more popular, better version of, or less expensive product. It is often that the replacement product trumps the older version and is a better value than the older version even if is not discounted. Basically the manufacturer takes the hit rather than make the retailer suffer the loss associated with an over all reduced price of inventory. Mail in rebates like product coupons are seldom paid out because of the strict nonsense required to obtain the refund. Many customers forget or give up while waiting for the refund. Having said that, I don't for a moment believe that your intent is anything other than to do only the honorable thing for your customers. You seem a bit too "hands on" to risk dissatisfaction from you customers and I commend you for this. This country needs more businessmen like you and business to be run like yours to rebuild its reputation and faith with it's customers. I think the whole problem with your thread was the mention of the much resented "r" word.
Well, I suppose it's possible for two people to interpret the same words in two different ways. With Leon reflecting on the success of his "career", suggesting various courses of action for me to take, and waxing eloquent on various paltitudes, it's the conclusion I came to. Perhaps I'm wrong. In any case, it's not out of line to ask him to elaborate on a topic that he raised (his "career"). I'd like to know what qualifies him to be advising me in how to conduct my business.
New dealer, existing dealer - it doesn't matter. Buy from a dealer, get a rebate.
Yep. No doubt about it. A favor in exchange for a 10% cash rebate. Something wrong with that? I'm not asking them to go toe to toe with the purchasing manager and negotiate terms for a contract. Geez, I'm just offering a cash rebate for those who choose to buy their Aligner at a dealer.
Indeed they did. I have acknowledged their dislike of rebates. I've also listened to all their suggestions. I even listened to Leon's suggestions. When I pointed out the problems with Leon's suggestions, he started talking about his career, offering a number of platitudes about what is most important and what I should do, etc. So, I decided to ask him to qualify his statements. That's all. Let's just find out what qualifies Leon to be giving me advise in how to run my business. Wouldn't you like to know more about Leon?
Where did I attack Leon? Please explain how it is an attack to ask Leon to qualify his statements. What is wrong with asking him to elaborate on topics that he raised in his message? If the questions embarrass him or make him feel uncomfortable, or if he finds them difficult to answer, then perhaps he shouldn't have raised those particular issues. Perhaps he would be better off raising issues that he finds easier to discuss.
Well, once again we have two people interpreting the same words in two different ways. Perhaps you think I'm now being argumentative with you. I would say that two people can disagree on something without arguing. Wouldn't you agree? The only way that two people can come to a complete understanding is to discuss the issues: asking and answering questions.
Thanks, Ed Bennett snipped-for-privacy@ts-aligner.com
Well actually, their follow up e-mail indicated that the PT job is not going to be a problem. ;~)
I am not so sure Swingman writes the songs, I could be wrong, but all day long I have had this catchy tune going through my head and the voice is sounds exactly like his wife.
I thought so! The line that says something about a Handsome man from Louisiana brought you to mine, although I have never really felt compelled to evaluated your handsomeness. ;~)
You made a bad business decision. You got your rebate, you got your free stuff, you got exactly what the seller intended. You have no complaint against the manufacturer or the seller. What you did not get was the opportunity to make a quick buck. Can't blame the rebate program for that.
Yes. There are many "rebates" that (1) I never received, (2) has some very small detail that if you messed up meant you would never get the rebate, (3) you have to wait 4-5 weeks to even know if the rebate worked and (4) If it goes wrong, there is nothing you can do to fix it, and (5) they want an e-mail address so they can spam you.
For example, I had a rebate that said I must circle the item I wanted the rebate for. I send in a sales slip which listed ONE item. I didn't circle it.
I didn't get the rebate.
I will take an "instant rebate" - available at the cash register. Anything related to a big box store I don't trust.
Ed, The problem with some dealers though is the old adage "what is in it for me?" I work as a salesman/technical advisor for a company and the biggest headache is always when there is a rep that wants to do something like a rebate. I always suggest that for every widget we sell that we turn in a coupon from a consumer, that we earn points or some type of discount towards future purchases. At the end of the promotion, I always take the discount. Bottom line is the most important to them and a way to improve future profits is a likeable and doable option. Another way is to partner with a select few distributors that are your highest volume. Have them offer it as a Internet coupon.
I don't think you claimed to be qualified either. But, your message alluded to qualifications so I asked you to elaborate.
Yes, I did.
I am genuinely interested. I have read all of them. Some have led me to make changes. I've explained why some aren't practical or even possible. But, you'll have to admit, there was a point where the ideas stopped flowing and the platitudes started.
I've been in a similar situation, and of that $150 at CompUSA, I was supposed to get $130 back. Instead I got $30 back.
I bought stuff because it was cheap - less than $10 after rebate. Example: A can of compressed air to cleaning out a PC - free after rebate. But I had to mail them the UPC symbol - which was on the can. I sent a photocopy instead. (because the can become useless once I removed the UPC). Never got the rebate.
And then there is the postcard you get saying the rebate would not be honored because you didn't include everything. And when I filled out
5-10 at one time this is less that useful, as it never says which rebate it deals with.
Getting all of those CompUSA purchases with rebates of 80% of the price was a bad bad decision. I think they got in trouble with the Attorney General. They no longer do any CompUSA rebates unless it's at the register.
Yep, I did. And, it is always interesting for me to learn about another persons life experiences. I hope you don't mind me snipping it for brevity sake.
Thanks for sharing. It sounds a lot like my brother. He's managed several retail tire stores. Now he's managing a tire distribution center for a large national chain.
I do have a bit of experience when it comes to customer service and support. That's what I did for 17 years at HP. I developed and implemented the service, support, and warranty programs for new products. I've dealt with all sorts of customers from individual's with a printer at home to Fortune 500 companies with hundreds of thousands of pieces of equipment. I understand customer service - I really do - on every continent and in every culture of the world.
The last product I worked on was responsible for more than $4 Billion in revenue (yes, Billion with a "B", one single product!). My planning (service parts stocking and distribution, call center organization and training, repair depot training and organization, warranty terms & conditions, etc.) saved the company more in warranty costs on this one product than your company's entire annual sales. Much of this experience has absolutely nothing to do with running a small business.
So admonitions about "pleasing the customer" would, by your own estimation, be completely unnecessary, right?
So admonitions about "gaining their trust" would, by your own estimation, be completely unnecessary, right?
Well, the answer is pretty darn close to ZERO. Once a person buys a TS-Aligner there just isn't much need to buy another. It doesn't have any consumables. It doesn't wear out. So, "repeat business" just isn't a very good measure of the success of my marketing programs. I live on referal business, google, and the occasional magazine article.
So, I guess nothing in your knowledge of me, my company, or my products could possibly justify an admonition like "Nothing worth doing is always easy".
Ya, I suppose you would probably consider this to be one of those times. Sorry. It's meant to clear the air, promote understanding - not be argumentative.
If there was a point here, I missed it. Most of the time I spend on the wreck is in the fall. There just happens to be a lull between building up inventory during the summer and the holiday sales. I announce the annual promotion and hang around until I get too busy. So, you probably associate most of what I say with the annual promotion. And, I tend to spend most of my time helping people with machinery adjustment/alignment issues.
You do realize that I have been selling the TS-Aligner products since
1991, right? I'm not all that new to the whole customer satisfaction, sales and profits thing. I don't pay people to rave about my products newsgroups. They do it because they really are extremely satisfied.
Let's just touch on the "increased sales" thing. That's what the dealer channel is all about. It's large scale exposure and distribution like I could never do on my own. That's "the big picture". I'm not going to drop customer satisfaction. I'm still going to do everything I can to to promote positive interaction with prospective customers. But, I just can't continue to sit on a facility that can produce 100 times more product than I currently sell. I have to do something. And the dealers just don't understand the products or comprehend the sales potential. If it were made from plastic in China and had a 10,000x markup they would understand. But since it isn't, they need to see some demand before they will commit to buy.
Just think about what you are saying. How is a rebate going to adversely affect *MY* long term customer loyalty? Maybe if they get pissed off at a poorly administered program, right? Well that's just not going to happen in this case. And remember, there really isn't much in it for me when it comes to repeat business.
Rebates are also used to gather demographic info. And, sometimes they are used to generate mailing lists for junk mail or sales leads for telemarketing. None of these conditions apply to my situation.
Again, this just doesn't apply.
I appreciate the compliment. But, you have to admit that it makes your previous admonitions completely unnecessary. If you really believe this then why all the fuss with the platitudes? I understand and acknowledge the potential for problems. OK? Yes, these would be valid concerns if I were thinking of hiring some scum bag company to administer a program for one of the reasons you state above. But, you know that this just isn't the case.
Hmmmm..... OK. Sorry about that. Which "r" word are we talking about? "Ret___" or "Reb___"?
"Ed Bennett" wrote in message news: snipped-for-privacy@r34g2000hsd.googlegroups.com...
Very fond memories come flooding back when I step into a tire store and smell the rubber. ;~)
When I was promoted to service sales manager my immediate task was to get control of the volume of customer dissatisfied customers. Typically on a Monday morning, our service advisors would receive 100 cars before seeing the end of the line. A good 50% of those customers were back for the same reason that they were in the previous week for. I will admit that there were changes implemented to help the customer more but the product was the biggest problem along with large corporation arrogance to not build a better product.
I think that you cannot remind yourself enough as to who is the #1 priority. I did not intend to insinuate that you did not have your customers best interests in mind.
Same as above.
Well then my gut feeling was correct. I was not sure if you had other products to offer or not. I naturally knew that you TS aligner would probably be a one time purchase from a customer unless you were supplying to a large shop.
No, it was just a statement.
Yeah, but then again I was only meaning to reinforce the sentiment of others about the general feeling about rebates. I did not mean to infer that you would fall in with the group of companies that do not fulfill the obligation. I just wanted to say that even by association of the "rebate" term you may draw a negative view by a potential customer. I think you would have to agree that a few including myself believe that a rebate sends up a warning flag.
No, I was not aware of that, nor would I have been surprised had you been selling your product 10 years before that. Nor was I meaning to "whip you" with the importance of pleasing the customer. I believe that pleasing the customer cannot be stressed enough. Where I am coming from on this is from the time I started to work, customer satisfaction was drilled. Drilled but not proven. I was always fortunate to have worked in a store that had a high volume of sales. Customer screw ups really did not ever factor in, our store could have been twice as big and we still would have almost been too busy with sales. Anyway when I worked for the last company, the AC/Delco wholesaler, the father and son owned company, I saw first hand how screwing up with the customer affected the business. Our wholesale operation did not deal with the public at all. Our business customers provided a list of part numbers that they wanted to buy and we filled the order. Our inventory counts were 99.999 % accurate. 5 or 6 times a year we would find a single deviation in quantity of what the computer said we had and what we actually had. Our computer reflected the state of our inventory with remarkable accuracy. Our customers appreciated it when they called for a part and we said that we had it that we in fact did have the part even if the computer showed a quantity of 1 on hand. Our customer basically never had to learn of a back order from the packing slip. He knew when he placed the order if he was going to receive the part or not. Having said all that, the owners knew all of the customers personally and when competition stepped in and started cutting in to the pie we naturally lost some sales. The owners had become complacent about the #1 priority and would not change to get some customers back. They would actually "punish" a customer that used another wholesale provider when they would come back to us to order a part or parts and would often triple their regular price. I still to this day shake my head in disbelief. 6 years after I left the company the owners closed the doors because sales had dropped to the point that having the money in the bank earned more money than the net profit. The company was not sold, it was simply closed down and the inventory was returned to GM for a discounted credit. I believe to this day that the owners never saw the results of their actions coming. These millionaires lost sight of the #1 priority.
Just think about what you are saying. How is a rebate going to
To restate, I was not certain whether or not you had repeat customers.
Agreed, but the word rebate can portray a negative image regardless of whether yours is or is not a well oiled machine that fulfills the rebate obligations.
If you have not guessed by now. ;~) I take customer satisfaction and service very seriousely. I am a walking talking proponent of this way of thinking regardless of who I am speaking with. Many people and I am not saying that you are one of them, simply don't realize or have never realized the reason for a down turn in business. Every thing can effect your relationship with a customer, even things that may not be true about your business relationship with him.
rebate ;~) I consider it a bad word to use around a customer.
Thanks once again for the lively discussion. Good luck with your "customer appreciation rewards program".
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