Tree growth rings disprove that the earth is warmer now than during Roman times and or even 1000 years ago.

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A new analysis of 2,000 years of tree ring data has quickly made climate change deniers' list of greatest hits to the theory of man made global warming. The tree rings "prove [the] climate was WARMER in Roman and Medieval times than it is now," the British newspaper the Daily Mail reported last week, "and [the] world has been cooling for 2,000 years." That and other articles suggest the current global warming trend is a mere blip when viewed in the context of natural temperature oscillations etched into tree rings over the past two millennia. The Star-Ledger, a New Jersey newspaper, mused that the findings lock in "one piece of an extremely complex puzzle that has been oversimplified by the Al Gores of the world."
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On 7/17/2012 2:57 PM, Leon wrote:

well duh.
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Steve Barker
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AlGore overly simple? Who wudda thunk?
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Leon wrote:

just proves that you don't f**k with mother nature
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On 7/17/2012 3:57 PM, Leon wrote:

A narrow study using data derived from tree rings in sub-arctic Lapland? Yeah, I'm sure that applies very broadly to the rest of the world.
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wrote:

In the past decade, hikers in Switzerland have been discovering previously unknown paths (and bodies/mummies?) which were hiked during the Medieval Warm Period, proving that same hypothesis.

Oversimplified hell. He outright lied about overstating every bit of data and then -acknowledged- it, saying that people wouldn't act unless he did so. Farkin' liberal maroons!
-- Win first, Fight later.
--martial principle of the Samurai
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Got a link? Art
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Never mind. I see why you didn't provide one. The balance of the article doesn't support the part you quoted. http://www.livescience.com/21624-tree-rings-global-warming.html Art
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On 7/17/2012 7:07 PM, Artemus wrote:

Actually it does support it however it has a greenie interpretation that tries to, as you have found out, make it sound otherwise. Call it a political rebuttal if you will.
Yes at the moment the globe is getting warmer, at this brief point in time, just like it did in the early 90's and dozens upon dozens of times in the past thousand of years. Trying to stop the warming cycle is futile and a waste of time and resources, we have bigger problems to solve. Given enough time this cycle too will pass and we will be headed for another ice age, I wonder what we are doing to cause that.
Have you ever seen a dog chasing its tail?
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Just for fun. Here is a link to a retroactive look at a 1981 paper that looked at scenarios to predict global climate, taking into account many factors. It seems that 30 years later the observations have confirmed the predictions, including the role of CO2. <http://tinyurl.com/832z88r or <http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2012/04/evaluating-a-1981 - temperature-projection/>
My physicist daughter found the link, and yes, KNMI is the acronym of the Dutch weather service (Koninklijk Nederlands Meteorologisch Instituut), and I am a born Dutchman.
In geological times Earth's temperature has often been warmer than today, and part of the current rise in globally averaged temperatures may be due to other factors. It is just remarkable that 1981 calculations were able to predict observations made over the next 30 years, and were based on the rise in CO2. Really curious correlation ... Yes I know.
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Han
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On 7/18/2012 7:41 AM, Han wrote:

Nothing curious about it, Han ... when it comes to correlation and causation figures can lie, and liars can figure. Massage/adjust the data just right (as in the traditional and adjusted temperature data sets being used for modeling) and the moon is made of Limburger ... or at least smells like it. :)
And yes, we are definitely in a warming period ... however, the reason has simply not been determined with sufficient scientific certainty to embark upon the 'rob the rich, give to the poor' measures those intent on destroying the sovereignty of select nations in favor of a world government would have you believe.
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I hear and respect your doubts, Karl. I'm still with the general idea that manmade CO2 is a bad thing, and should be curbed as much as feasible. But I stil drive a 7 year old Grand Caravan ...
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Han
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On 7/18/2012 10:24 AM, Han wrote:

I agree, and certainly think there is indeed evidence to correlate the two, but, as a single cause, thus far it is far from sufficient to overcome my suspicion of political motives and agendas.
Sad world we live in ... one would have thought that ubiquitous, rapid means of communication could have mitigated the seeds of FUD, but so far it seems to have increased it exponentially.
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I'd bet that the research done at the KNMI around 1980 is free from what you call FUD. But I have to admit I left Holland a decade before ...
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Han
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On 7/18/2012 10:24 AM, Han wrote:

So uh like, ummmm Han! ;~) You think CO2 is a bad thing and should be curbed as much as feasible but not enough to buy a greener vehicle???
The responsibility is every one else's ???
Maybe not bad enough or causing enough trouble that "you" should change... ;~)
LOL
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I know it sounds hypocritical, Leon, and perhaps it is. I like the van, and I won't ditch it (that has environmentally harmful consequences as well <grin>). I also can't really justify a second vehicle for just my wife and me. So I try to drive as little as possible/convenient, and do it in a greeny kind of way - no jackrabbit starts etc.
But indeed, I think that industrialized generation of CO2 is NOT a good thing for the environment (I pay extra to get renewable energy electricity).
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On 7/18/2012 6:27 PM, Han wrote:

Precisely Han, if any one really thought this was a serious problem we would probably be doing something about it other than coming up with ways to make money off of fixing what very very few are willing to actually do anything about. The fix will inevitably be a rob Peter to pay Paul situation. The cure will be equal to or worse than the problem.
Has any one considered lately that cleaning up the atmosphere allows more sun light to reach the surface of the earth??? Stronger hurricanes because there is more warming of the oceans. How is that better???
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On 7/18/12 6:37 PM, Leon wrote:

Some areas get most of their groundwater replenished and most of their yearly rainfall from hurricanes. How is that *not* better? Maybe the answer is to quit building human habitation in areas below sea level. I'm sorry, but I have little to no sympathy for those in New Orleans who were warned generation after generation to get the F#@k out of the area because there are hurricanes every year. That's a big f-n "DUH!" in anyone's book except those who think other people and the government is responsible for solving their own problems.
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When barges are seen going by *above* people's heads, it tell me that it's not where I want to live. Then there's Holland.
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On Wed, 18 Jul 2012 18:37:57 -0500, Leon wrote:

Quick! Bring back the smog!
Thanks for my daily laugh, Leon :-).
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