Treated lumber for bird house

[Indyrose]

One of my 4-H wood working kids turned up with treated lumber for making a bird house. It's the new stuff, AC2-- not CCA -- but I still don't trust the new stuff.

I'm in the process of telling him why that is a bad idea, and to use just about anything else instead -- even cheap pine with a good latex exterior paint for protection.

Although it is touted as being "less toxic," that still doesn't put my mind at ease. Personally, I wouldn't work with it indoors, use it with animals (birds) or let kids handle it much. I certainly wouldn't want to finish sand the stuff.

Am I being too cautious, as the kid's parents seem to think I am?

Indyrose

Reply on the wreck or to my "real" email at indyrose at milmac dot com.

[MrWoody]

No, the kids parents are idiots. Wood can be toxic enough without adding chemicals to the shop dust. Tell the kids parents if they insist he use the wood to do it at their house, far away from the other kids.

[Bay Area Dave]

here is a link to one of the chemicals. make up your own mind as to it's safety.

the pesticide industry is any indicator, NOTHING they make is safe. First they took Chlordane off the market, which I used freely around my property. So I bought Dursban. Now that's banned. I also used a termite killer that is no longer sold due to it's toxicity. At some point, I think the industry will replace all their products as safety concerns continue to pile up.

dave

[Neal]

Birdhouses are one of my specialties and I now mostly work with pine. Surprising enough, even cedar is considered by many to be too toxic for birds. I don't know anything about AC2 but I would not use it.

Neal

[Phisherman]

I don't like working with PT lumber, although I recently constructed a park bench using it. You should work with it outdoors and with a properly fitted dust mask. The splinters from PT wood are nasty and take a long time to heal. For bird houses, I prefer pine. One pine house is over 18 years old and still in use today--I think the tar shingle on the roof helped preserve it. I also built a bat house, made from pine.

[Bob Schmall]

I toiled for a while at a Wild Birds Unltd store. The manager/owner knew her stuff and was vehemently against ANY finish on the wood, even those that are "non-toxic" for humans. She felt that not only were the birds susceptible to the treated wood itself but also to the outgassing that cannot be prevented. Her recommendation was to use untreated, unfinished pine. Yes, it will decay, but no, the birds won't.

Bob

[Larry Blanchard]

While some of the stuff is truly scary (i.e. DDT), a lot of the banning is to protect people who use the stuff incorrectly. And I have to wonder if somebody isn't seeing dollar signs on product liability lawsuits.

There's no product more dangerous than an automobile when used incorrectly. OK, maybe a motorcycle :-).

[MrWoody]

Like letting children build a bird house with it for instance?

[J. Clarke]

I think the big problem is that birds are quite sensitive to substances that a human wouldn't even be aware of. For example, miners used to use canaries as warning of the presence of toxic gases--the canary would die long before the buildup was high enough to harm the miners, so they'd know to get out or ventilate in plenty of time. That being the case, with anything that birds are going to live in I think it is best to err on the side of caution.

Googling "birdhouse pressure treated" got one 8 year old extension service link that said it was OK, the many, many others said not to.

has lots of good information on birdhouses. Since it's part of a research project being conducted by the Cornell Ornithology lab which is one of the top avian research organizations in the world, I think anything they say you can pretty much take as gospel, and one of the first things they say is "untreated wood".

I suspect that heart cedar with an asphalt shingle top would last a good long time.

[Bay Area Dave]

or an assault rifle...

dave

Larry Blanchard wrote: snip

[BillNorris]

How do you use an assault rifle wrong? They are designed for one purpose only. To shoot people. So if you aren't shooting people with it, you are using it wrong.

[Dave Hinz]

Odd, I've got several rifles defined by the legislature as "assult rifles", and I haven't shot anyone with 'em. Either I'm doing something wrong, or your point of view is incorrect.

So shooting holes in paper targets from 200, 300, 600, and 1000 yards isn't legitimate in your world? That's nice, but keep out of my world.

[BillNorris]

Exactly.

Why not RPGs?

As long as gun nuts like you stay out of mine you can depend on it. People in your world shoot 50,000 other Americans a year. I guess they ran out of paper targets.

BTW, almost every one of those people who shot other people were using their gun for the purpose for which it was intended.

[Dave Hinz]

So you are saying that I should be killing people with my guns. Wow. Sorry, but I don't accept your interpretation, and find it insulting. Personal ownership of firearms is why you _have_ the right to free speech.

Evasion noted.

Cite, please? (Translation: I think you pulled that number out of your ass, and would like to see you back it up with a legitimate source).

And circuit boards were designed for guided missles, therefore all computers are ballistic weapons as well. Logic isn't your strong point, is it.

[Bob]

Do not use treated lumber. There are a lot if toxins that can hurt birds out there.

[Bay Area Dave]

I've shot a variety of rifles and pistols and haven't yet used a person as a target!

I'm hardly a gun nut though. I don't think I own enough weapons to be considered one. Some here would label me a "nut" but that's another issue. :)

Does everyone who has a steak knife in their kitchen drive it through someone's gut?

I'd like to see the "nuts" not have access to weapons of ANY type, but then they would just fashion one from something else, like their cars, their hands; whatever suits their twisted purpose. You can't legislate "normalcy". Look at

911. They used the aircraft that they were riding in. Took everyone by total surprise. This is a crazy time we are living in and I'm afraid things will just get worse as time goes on. (But I hope I'm wrong!)

dave

[e-mail] wrote:

[Bay Area Dave]

what about a Scary Sharp chisel, Larry? That can cause grievous bodily harm!

dave

Larry Blanchard wrote:

[LastResponseto]

Actually the number is WAY low. Far more than 50,000 people are SHOT every year in the US. Every fourteen minutes someone DIES from a gun shot wound in the US.

Conversation is over. Gun owners in the US are the single largest identifiable group in the world who suffer from a serious mental illness but go largely untreated.

[Dave Hinz]

Based on what specific data, exactly?

Yes, I've seen this claim before, but not by anyone who can back it up.

I see, this is the "I'm going to make a claim, refuse to back it up with any legitimate data other than 'I said so' and bail out" tactic. Ah yes, always an effective way to make your case.

...followed by the personal insult. Yup, you're a classic. Your next step is, I believe, to follow up even though you claimed you were done. Maybe you could post some actual sources of your claimed data? You know, ones that don't come from Sarah Brady and company?

[BillNorris]

There are hundreds of guns designed for target shooting. Assault rifles and large caliber handguns are designed for one purpose. To shoot people. If you aren't shooting people then you are using the gun for a purpose for with it wasn't designed. In fact the 45 was adopted by the military so officers could shoot and kill, at close range, their own men for cowardice.

But will your steak knife travel through several walls and kill the neighbors child two doors down? A steak knife is designed to cut a steak not kill people. An assault weapon has a single purpose, to kill other people. It serves no other purpose. Shooting paper targets shaped like people is the behavior of the mentally ill.

BTW, put a human shaped paper target up in you yard and go piss on it once a day and see how quickly the cops are at your door. But shooting them is considered normal. Only in America.