transparent, colourless epoxy

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Hi,
I have seen some wood workers use a colourless transparant epoxy for filling holes in wood. They said it was the same hardness as the wood and easily sanded.
Where might I find such a product and what would it be called?
I have a very nice set of salad servers made from olive wood, and unfortunately, one of the tines on the fork cracked and broke off, I'm hoping to use this product to repair it. It appears as though there was a natural fault in the wood at that spot which caused it to break. Will i be able to use such a product to repair this permanently?
Thanks for any advice,
Jason
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"Jason Lewis" writes:

It would be called "epoxy"<G>.
Epoxy is by design, a clear liquid unless you and a pigment color to it.
Don't know where you are but it appears to be outside the US.
Do you have any boat builders in your area?
If so, try to find the WEST system epoxy from the Gougeon Bros.
They also have a web site where you can get tech assistance.
HTH
--
Lew

S/A: Challenge, The Bullet Proof Boat, (Under Construction in the Southland)
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I have a gallon of WEST epoxy left over from a boat project, and have tried to use it as glue. It doesn't work out very well. I recommend buying real epoxy glue. What ever they use to thicken it works much better than the saw dust I tried. (Laminating epoxy is very thin because it must easily saturate the fiberglass; it won't stay in a joint without being thickened.)
And no, trying to reattach a fork prong without any reinforcement would be a fools errand.
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On Thu, 22 Jul 2004 03:11:11 GMT, "Lew Hodgett"
-big snip-

Have you tried System 3 or MAS epoxies? If so, how do they compare? Best pricing on epoxy comes from ________?
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"Larry Jaques" writes:

Have used a lot of System 3, especially when the price is right<G>..

Strictly a commodity item.
From my perspective, snot is snot, it all works.
Price will be a function of quantity purchased.
I buy resin in 500 lb drums, so I have absolutely no feel for the retail market.
HTH
--
Lew

S/A: Challenge, The Bullet Proof Boat, (Under Construction in the Southland)
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<snip>

I think what you will end up with is going to be mostly decorative. Olive wood is usually going to do what you have already experienced. My suggestion is that you repair this, and then display, not use the pieces.
Patriarch
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System Three 5-minute epoxy. Don't get the wood filler, just the 2-part epoxy. Not only will it fix your salad tongs, it makes a marvelous clear grain filler for red oak (in my opinion). You squeeze out the viscous stuff from each tube to a 1:1 ratio into a small container and then mix well---I find that small wax-paper cups work marvelously, and I mix with small (1/2"x1/4"x6", e.g.) scraps from whatever project I'm on. Slather it on and don't clamp too tightly. WEAR BREATHING PROTECTION, as uncured epoxy is quite toxic.
When you fix the tine, don't clamp it. In fact, if you can, try drilling a teeny hole into both the tine and the fork base, pack in some of the epoxy and insert a short piece of wire as a dowel. If the olive is fairly oily, clean the parts to be joined with mineral spirits first and let dry.
Fit as well as you can and hold it (don't clamp) for 5-10 minutes, depending on ambient temp. Let sit for an hour. I think you'll be happy with it. I find it a little harder than red oak when sanding, so be careful where it meets the wood. Might be softer than olive.
Jason Lewis wrote:

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"Elwood Dowd" writes:

Nonsense.
Laminating epoxy contains no VOC's.
You should wear protective clothing to avoid developing contact dertermatitus when exposed to the amine hardners, but that is a different issue..
5 minute epoxy is inherently weaker than slower curing products.
Mineral spirits and epoxy don't mix.
If you must clean an oily wood like teak, then wear protective clothing and use acetone.
And yes, use only modest clamping pressure.
Less clamping is better than more when using epoxy.
HTH
--
Lew

S/A: Challenge, The Bullet Proof Boat, (Under Construction in the Southland)
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I will add, when using epoxy be sure to work it into both surfaces well before you stick them together and you will have you something.
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Lew Hodgett wrote:

Well, we are talking about epoxy glues here, not laminating epoxies, but I doubt that makes much of a difference. VOCs are not the only measure of toxicity.
Many, many people have damaged their lungs due to contact with epoxy. This is a well-known problem with boatbuilders and homebuilt aircraft builders. It is quite common to develop a sensitivity to the stuff as well that will affect the rest of your life. Happened to a boatbuilder friend---he developed both asthma and a general chemical sensitivity. I have seen him double over in agony after riding one floor in an elevator with someone wearing perfume that I could barely smell. It is not a pretty sight. I wear a vapor respirator now around anything that has to cure in my presence.
Don't take my word for it; I'm not a chemist nor a toxicologist.
Here is a government report on the subject: http://www.dhs.ca.gov/ohb/HESIS/epoxy.htm
Here is a link to the material safety data sheet for System 3 two-part epoxy glue: http://www.systemthree.com/msds/MSDS_SystemThree_Resin.pdf
Here is a list of stories from boatbuilders who have become sensitized to the "non-toxic" hazardous chemicals in laminating epoxy: http://www.fram.nl/workshop/controlled_vacuum_infusion/allergy.htm
Also---latex gloves pass some of the chemicals through to your skin. Use nitrile or vinyl gloves. There is also a barrier cream that goes on very easily that is reported to help tremendously.
Here is a link from the Glen-L boat kit company on the subject: http://www.glen-l.com/supplies/pxman-safety.html

Both of these are good advice, though I doubt anything stronger than 5-minute cure would be needed for a salad fork. BTW, I also wear a vapor respirator using acetone.
In truth, I find it hard to believe someone would actually advocate *against* wearing safety equipment when using potent chemicals, but there's the net for you.
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On Thu, 22 Jul 2004 21:48:32 -0500, Lew Hodgett calmly ranted: "Larry Jaques" writes:

So you prefer it over the other 2? Do you use the # of pump strokes or go by weight when mixing?

That's good to know.

So I see. =:-0

I wouldn't expect so, Mr. Deep Pockets. Average drum price?
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"Larry Jaques" writes:

I designed and built a motorized pump metering system operated by a foot switch.
Used two (2), 1/2" gear pumps, each connected to a jack shaft by a bicycle chain so that they pump the exact ratio of resin to hardner.
A belt drive connects the jack shaft to the motor ansd away we go.
Typically, mix about 1-1/2 quarts of resin per batch.

How many drums do you want to buy?
--
Lew

S/A: Challenge, The Bullet Proof Boat, (Under Construction in the Southland)
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On Fri, 23 Jul 2004 17:09:23 GMT, "Lew Hodgett"

Curiosity has no number, sir. 1?
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Larry Jaques wrote:

But price breaks do. Generally if you buy a hundred of something the price is lower than if you buy one.

--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
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"Larry Jaques" writes:

Might some body to take an order for $3/lb, maybe a little less.
Lew
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On Sat, 24 Jul 2004 04:29:42 GMT, "Lew Hodgett"

Bueno, bwana. I'll check back with you after I return from somebody's birthday party next week.
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"Elwood Dowd" writes:

Before the resin cures, there are no vapors to be concerned with; however, having said that, protective clothing needs to be worn to avoid mixed but uncured resin from coming in contact with the skin.
After the resin has kicked but before having cured for about a week (AKA: green state), the dust created from sanding is a real problem and if you don't wear a dust mask, can cause all the problems you describe above.
After about a week of curing, the sanding dust is not as serious a problem, but a dust mask is still required.

Neither am I.

Actually, I use two (2) sets of gloves, a latex surgical type pair covered by a pair of what are known as "canner's gloves" which has a cuff just above the wrist.
When I'm finished, remove the canner's gloves leaving the clean latex glove to be used to remove the disposable suit and shoes.

I've tried several, none seem to work for me.

I don't even keep acetone in the boat yard.

I'm definitely advocating that proper safety clothing needs to be worn when working with epoxy; however, a respirator is not required when applying laminating resin (glue).
OTOH, there are epoxy based coatings such as high build primer, "tank resin", etc that definitely do contain VOC's.
If you are working with these products, especially in an enclosed area, a good respirator is an absolute must.
It all depends on what you are doing.
--
Lew

S/A: Challenge, The Bullet Proof Boat, (Under Construction in the Southland)
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I, too, prefer the nitrile gloves. Don't use them with MEK-based hardeners with resins (i.e. polyester, vinylester), but they are fine with epoxies.
I wear several layers of gloves. If the outer layer becomes too messed up to continue, I just tear off the outer glove and keep working. For something as simple as the OP's repair, I'd wear two layers and potentially reuse the inner ones if nothing happened to them.
Mike
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Thanks for all your responses.
I'll endeavour to find some epoxy like the system three at the hardware store here (in Australia)
Jason
Jason Lewis wrote:

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You're not likely to find that kind of epoxy in a hardware store. Your best bet is a marine supply place. One of the biggest problems with those brands (MAS, System 3, West etc) is they don't often sell in small quantities. It's easy to get a liter or more, but a quarter liter is another thing. I think West Systems makes a small repair kit, but I've never seen it in marine shops near me. Hope you're luckier.
Mike
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