Tool ReReview - Refurb Delta Unisaw - Part One (Long-what else?)

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Greg G. said:

And actually, after viewing a catalog of this manufacturer's available components (I have a bookshelf shelf full of OEM electronic catalogs), it is, in fact, an OEM spec'd NHD magnetic switch. Right down to the knobs, case and internals. http://www.magnetic-switch.com.tw/Index3-1.htm
What I can't figure is why they included a spring loaded, rotating collar on the STOP/OFF knob. They could have saved .06 by omitting that part and substituting a plain sleeve. MFG's start-up delay, I assume. It does absolutely nothing but sit there, mocking me. ;-)
FWIW,
Greg G.
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I apologise for top posting a summary. and I may be answering several posts, I just can't wade through all of this.
"Agree or disagree, but as Sergeant Friday says, Just the Facts, Ma'am. If in error, you may call me on it, but it's a report, not brand debate."
Your words.
You state a fact that I can accept. with whatever method you are using (other than a Profilimeter) the table seems to be better finished. But it is gritty and has grit in some of the fastener holes. Then you go into a diatrobe of assumptions. The table was apparantly reground and you describe the method that was used to regrind it. as if you are an authority. as if you know.
table was not reground. Sanded? Maybe, but again not likely.
Grind process as described. Table located on a fixture with three mounting locaters, not the mounting bosses. ( you machinists know all planes established by three points all related features must come off of those locating points). Multiple jacks provide support but are not locators. Table starts to reciprocate back and forth slowly at approximately ten strokes per minute. Vertical shaft wheel with grind segments starts to feed down very slowly. Whole process is continually flooded with massive amounts of coolant pumped at high velocity (without which table would warp and scorch) which also cleans it of previously ground sludge. Feed continues for approximately five minutes (not seconds), recip is slowed for spark out and table is flushed, removed, deburred, checked for flatness (third of four times), moves to double t-slot mill to establish bottom of slot in relation to the new plane of the top (abandon locators for this, new plane of the top more functionally important.)
But as I mentioned, it is not important. What is relevant is that there was grit on the table and you're right, that should not be. And I don't know how it got that way. Have some ideas but that would be speculating and offering assumptions.
You are right, area around insert opening most difficult to hold flat. and numbers on the table while not terrible are not that great
Other stuff (below) when inaccurate, equally not important, and I'm not going to wade through it.
And yes, I do know the refurb being moved to TX. All prior references in my posts to Jackson, Tn doing refurb were after it stopped in Tupelo and before B & D closed on the business and decided at a later date to move the process to their facility in Texas. And that doesn't matter either.
And I'm not whining, hope you finally get through all this and actually start using your stuff. You know woodworking is very relaxing. And I want you relaxed and in a good mood. Cause I have a plan. All regular posters stay at your house during IWF next summer. and maybe a couple of dozen lurkers. Your wife won't mind will she?
Just kidding Greg
Frank

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Frank Boettcher said:

Yeah, it's getting deep... <g> I'll try to be brief, but it's hard... oh, so hard...

Uhh, that's diatribe. And it implies a bitter, resentful, possibly angry, denunciation within a lengthy discourse. I thought my approach was pretty light hearted. Nothing bitter or angry about it. Lengthy perhaps - and some enjoy hearing more than the standard 200 words.
Perhaps the use of the term grinding 'dust' is what misled you. Slurry and waste remaining after the lube/coolant used during the surfacing process has evaporated equates to 'dust' in my mind, and is far more succinct.
I never implied that they threw in on a table, attacked it with a grinding wheel dry, sparked it until it was pitted and turned blue. You inferred this ignorance on your own.
And it wasn't some of the holes - it was all of them. All the way through/to the bottom. But none on the table's skin. They DID wash it down - just not the holes.

Another demeaning, backhanded comment, perhaps?
Hmm... I've done automotive machine work in my younger days, and unless they've come up with a new sub-molecular surfacing machine, I have a pretty good idea. And yes, that is an assumption.
I had to build a crude device to surface the side housings on cast-iron rotary engine parts because no shops were set up to handle this 'non-conventional' item - and they didn't want to mess with it. And a homemade lapping machine based on alternating A-B-C-D patterns was used to smooth the final surface.
So I have a vague idea of what's going on here... I wouldn't own machinist's tools if I had no inkling.

_This_ table was resurfaced. Not the original table to the saw. Swapped as part of the refurb. Saw has had minor usage - all evidence supports this. Table blank has seen much more use than the saw itself. The pads for the insert have been used for so long there are divots well worn into the iron. That hue iron gets from age. But there's not one scratch from the miter gauge, no spots from moisture, no finger prints, no coffee mug rings. Just a freshly cut surface smeared with cosmoline (assumption - or whatever they put on them).
It was not sanded, the milling marks are clear, clean, but rough.
Stains that have been ground from the surface, but have left behind the tell-tale signs of their existence. I've worked with cast-iron and aluminum for many years. Not as a manufacturer, but in the field. I've seen the before, during, and after appearance of a machined cast-iron surface.
Forensic determination of a chain of events extracted from an inanimate object is something I'm fairly good at. <opinion>
This table is used, and was remachined. <- My experienced opinion.

Interesting overview of the machinery. But my assumption wasn't far off either. Different mounting points, speed, and a quick gloss-over concerning the exact procedure. Never claimed anything about the machinery itself. And the grey grit suggests aluminum oxide abrasives of some sort. Looks just like the dried slurry that comes from Al2O3.
And I believe that even the most insulated home handyman knows about machining lubricants, coolants, surface flushing, slurry, overheating, etc. Anyone who has sharpened a chisel has some limited experience. Didn't include a lengthy diatrobe <sic> about it because....

Exactly! It wasn't germane to my point.
It's wasn't that big a deal - to me- just a suggestion to make for happier customers. After some of the stories I've heard here from the less mechanically inclined folks trying to mount extension tables, it seemed to be something that should AT LEAST be pointed out in the manual. Clean out the crap from the threaded holes.
Grinding that bolt into that hole with a wrench whilst trying to hold a table vs. whipping it in there by hand. And perhaps I'm just an anal perfectionist, but the though of it all makes my skin crawl. I pointed it out because the manual neglected to point out this seemingly obvious fact.
Fastener torque values, longevity, potential stress points and cracks, ease of assembly and disassembly are all affected by a failure to remove grit from threads and then forcing a fastener into place.

Thanks, we agree on something... <g>

This isn't a scientific treatise. It isn't intended to be held to the highest standards of jurisprudence. It's a freaking book report. <g> I didn't know I needed to hire a proofreader.
If only our government was able to be so precise...
Frank, it's not your opinions, your knowledge, your useful input into problems people may have - what grates on me is the smug attitude. Perhaps I read too much into the way things are said, but that's how it seems to me. And believe me, I can be a real asshole myself. I only have to look down to see the feet of clay. Size 11. <g>

Perhaps they'll expedite things and dig a tunnel under the border? Yeah, that new(ish) Friendship Freedom Bridge in Brownsville is sure gonna help out there... <comedic assumption>

Really? I've heard that - but you couldn't prove it by me. <g>
But I'm working on it - as I have time. After bolting on the table extensions, however, I'm having a bit of trouble getting the ridges in the table joints down to an acceptable level. Tried flexing the tables slightly during assembly and bolting them down, but after a few hours, the ridges are back. They really are not flat. The first table was far flatter, just a lot rougher. I'm still working on it.
The fence doesn't want to clear the ridges in the table joints without hanging up either. The gauge that they apparently custom cut for each fence isn't even of any use. If I use that to align the fence L-rail, the fence just slides on the table surface, and slams into the ridges and hangs. It would tear the fibers out of the "hand fitted, Finnish birch plywood facings" if I didn't fudge it. These are things that I may work around, but some could not. That means a potential dissatisfied customer and a returned product.

Actually, that would be pretty cool. If'n I had a big'ole barn and a bunch of cots, I'd say, "Bring 'em on". As it is, I wouldn't have room for more than a couple...
And SWMBO wouldn't mind a bit - she wants to run a bed and breakfast. I'm the introvert in the family. Well, me and a few of the animals...
But I'm not certain I want to host a public flophouse for the International Wrestling Federation. Someone might get hurt by a big belt buckle...
I didn't even know they were holding it in Atlanta this summer. COMDEX '93(?) was enough for me...

<G>
Greg G.
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You are correct, thank you for the vocabulary lesson. However I meant it in the archaic , second meaning of lengthy discourse. I certainly saw nothing violent or bitter either and I apologise if it offended you. Some would say archaic meanings would be appropriate for a guy like me.
As mentioned, I don't know how it (dust) got there, just know it wasn't reground. Or let me qualify that. In one post you gave the dates of manufacture and the date of refurb. During that period of time the machinery that does the grinding, t-slotting, milling, drilling, etc. was out of service. The saw was assembled in Jackson, Tn, and the refurb was probably also done in Jackson. Jackson did not have any equipment to regrind. The equipment was being moved from Tupelo to a subcontractor in north Alabama and was not up and running until after that time frame.
Additionally, finished tables are not reground because they have to be remachined in some or all of the other features. t-slots, insert depth, hole location on skirt and the approach to minimum thickness allowable in the table body. If a table is bad, they just grab another table from stock and assemble it to the unit.
Now is there a chance that someone sent this particular table out to a custom machine shop and paid four times its cost to resurface it? Well, anything is possible.
If telling the truth about what you know is smugness then I'm guilty. I think it could be more closely defined as "here is what I observed or measured, and here is what apparently happened and how it happened without having enough information to draw the conclusion.
As I post this I notice that chapter two has been added. Do I even dare to open it? It is such nice day and the sun is out, maybe I'll wait.
Have a nice day Greg. Put your saw together and use it. Line the cots up in the garage.
Frank
<all the other stuff snipped because of exhaustion>
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Greg G. said:

And I totally FUBAR'd this paragraph. Too much cast-iron on the brain... A cast-iron arbor _shaft_ would probably last about 20 minutes... <g>
It should read...
Arbor _mount_ seems cast, but the grain structure looks tight. (The arbor shaft is machined steel - don't know the exact alloy.) Canadian General claims a forged arbor (and the only forge in the business) on their better saws, but to be honest, I've never heard of a broken arbor shaft that wasn't accompanied by abuse. Bent blades, impact, big hammers, and bad bearings all come to mind. ...yadda... yadda...
FWIW,
Greg G.
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