Depends on the finish, but not as stiff as you'd think. Many of the basic techniques apply regardless of gun, and even apply to spray can finishing. Can you get a good finish with a can?
I use a Fuji Mini Mite 4. This is exactly the same turbine as a Q4, four stage unit, minus noise reduction features for a very reasonable price.
This guy is great to deal with:
and useful for the tech support that places like Amazon can't even begin to provide.
I have a turbine HVLP spray unit. It leaves a beautiful finish, and it's easy to use. But I only drag it out for really big finish projects. It's so much trouble to clean up that I use wipe-on finishes for smaller projects.
DonkeyHody "We can't all be heros because somebody has to sit on the curb and clap as they go by." - Will Rogers
Personally, I still use rattle cans if the job calls for it. The only two things I don't like about them is less than 30% material transfer on target (which makes them cost much more than you might think!) and the low quality nozzles they put on most cans.
Not at all. There is a lot of info online, and there is a lot of information in print by different finishers. (Google "hvlp technique", "hvlp application", "hvlp method", etc.) There are some good softback books out there that appear from time to time in Barnes and Noble, and at some of the used book stores.
You can also search this group through Google and find a lot of information on technique, thinning protocols, material usage, etc.
Excellent system. Like Barry, I have one of the Fuji "X"4 systems. I have the Q4. I have used it a lot, and it is pretty bullet proof. When I bought mine, the Mini Mites weren't being widely sold or I might have bought that one as it is more affordable. I shoot stains, dyes, enamels, polyurethanes, and lacquers with it. This unit will put out a lot of cfms making sure you can apply just about any coating, even more than other 4 stage units. I don't know how, because something like 90% of all actual turbine assemblies for serious hvlp systems are made by the same company.
The kicker is the support for the product. The link Barry posted is where I got mine a couple of years ago, and Roger knows that product frontwards and backwards, and you can call him anytime. He won't teach you how to spray or apply, but he can tell you immediately if your problems are in product or machine.
I almost bought the Turbinaire because of the gun. Well made, balanced in the hand, and great fit and finish. It has is the only true turbine hvlp gun that has a fully adjustable pattern (not just a fixed detent position aircap) that works just like a high pressure paint spray gun.
That is because it IS a converted paint spray gun. I went to a Benjamin Moore sponsored event a couple of years ago to try this gun out (OK... and eat some barbecue) along with some other guns. I really liked the overall system, but Fuji won hands down on product support and consumables affordability. You can buy everything from Roger. And when I needed to speak to Roger, I found he always answered his phone, one time while walking his dog.
I have this thing about support after the sale since I have been drilled pretty hard a couple of times. After I got the info from Turbinaire at the demo, I went around the corner and called customer service on the phone. >>No one I assume they are all "very" similar in
Probably true. Some of the guns are really different though, and that makes all the difference in the world on your final finish. You need one that is comfortable in your hand, has a variety of AFFORDABLE aircaps, filters, one way valves, etc. readily available for it. It should be easy to break down and clean. Fit and finish is important as well as the rougher finished guns tend to be harder to clean.
Depending on what kind of spraying you do and where you do it, you may want a non bleeder or bleeder gun. I have both and prefer the non bleeder, although the bleeder is just fine for 99% of my needs.
Hmm... I found a well used unit a a flea market for $65US. Works great (lucky me), but the cleanup couldn't be easier. Rinse out the cup, run water through the tube thingy, and clean the little guide thingy that screws on the front. Takes 5 minutes. I guess different ones are made differently. I would definitely pay attention to what is needed to clean it.
Hello, There is two inherent problems with HVLP andfirst is the air is warm to hot which is problematic because the heat makes the finish cure faster then if the air was 70 degrees and 50 RH. The finish will not flow out like it should. It will be acceptable but not as good as conventional air spray. Some guy/gals will tell you that they get it to flow and the finish is good or great, but more often then not for the average guy/gal the finish is okay fair to middle compared with conventional. And when shooting water base it's most likely going to need to be reduced to get it to spray and then this problem really becomes apparent ( runs and sags or lots of coats) and when spraying lacquer you need to dump retarder in it to stop the blush and dry spray appearance.The second problem is that the cup is not pressurized and it relies on suction to pull the material up and out of the cup the problem is pressure is what makes the suction so when you reduce the pressure like HVLP LP meaning low pressure you reduce suction. to compensate you need to reduce the material and with some materials ( like water base ) to the point of making crap out of it. There is a solution which is a HVLP CONVERSION and I know you are concerned with cfm requirements but there are guns out there that only use 5 or 6 cfm and have nozzle pressure of 21 psi. they have pressurized cups and tanks and cost less then 500.00 bucks, as far as water and crap in the lines that is easily remedy with a in line filter or dryer filter on you compressor or both and with practice you will not believe the finish, piano quality lacquer not a problem. Here is a link to homestead finishing they sell Astro as well as others take a look at these and see if you might rethink HVLP turbine.
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Give these people a call they are a wealth of information. I am sure they will get you on the right track. ( no I am not affiliated with them just passing on experience)
Donald Grudeski President of Brush Boy Painting Company
"Pat Barber" wrote in message news:X6Yyj.699753$ snipped-for-privacy@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
I concur completely with Robert (nailshooter41) I have that Fuji Q4 and have had great results. I sprayed this recent project with it and my gold colored pick-up was less than 20 feet away....no overspray on the truck.
Wow. If I had all those problems, I wouldn't do my own finishing. I think of all the cabinets, trim, entryways, etc., I have finished over the years, and I haven't run into all the things you describe.
I miss high pressure application because of the ease of application.
But I like saving material.
I don't miss the drift. Check out Max's post above.
I had problems getting started with hvlp because I wanted to set the gun up and use the system like high pressure. Its like learning any other system, and investment in time and materials must be made. Once ironed out, I never looked back.
I picked up the Apollo 4 stage for a relative bargain, but haven't had the time to fiddle with it yet. Do you have any experience with it? How does it stack up against your fuji?
I'm going to follow up on a couple of your info suggestions. I really need to get on the learning curve on this thing with the end goal of an off-the-gun finish.
I liked the Apollo a lot. At the time though, I had it in my mind that bleeder guns were not a good thing, and at that time that was all Apollo had. The fit and finish were a little bit better than the same on my Fuji, and they delivered an excellent finish. I was sure though, that the bleeder function of the gun would get me in trouble. I had this picture of spraying away and laying down a nice coat then moving the gun to one side and kicking up some dust.
Apollo has their following and I think they are a top notch system. I wouldn't concern myself with the air bleed aspect of the gun. Just be careful where you point it! I was interested in them since they have been around forever and always get really solid reviews.
All I did was demo one, though. I listened to the saleman's pitch and he let me spray as much as I wanted to. It layed out a nice finish with no problem at all, and I was spraying unthinned latex enamel paint!
I haven't done a kitchen or anything like that. But my opinion is you will probably love it. I might be able to help you if you are talking about spraying paint, enamel, poly or lacquers, all based stuff.
For the water borne products, "ping" Barry and see if he is around.
jc - that's where it's at. Speed, dash and accuracy win the day in finishing. ALL of my finishing is 'off the gun' unless it is for me, or they clients are paying to have it rubbed out.
Keep a good journal of what you are doing, including temps, material, amount of air to the gun, etc. Like high pressure spraying, yo u will need to thin from time to time, so don't forget to include that in your notes. For me, one of the hardest things to do was to turn down the pressure/air flow. You can literally shoot as much material and make as much drift as a high pressure gun if you don't have it adjusted right.
I finally got the hang of it by turning the pressure to the gun OFF. Completely. Then I opened up the valve a half turn until it sprayed the way I wanted (then I wrote that down) and started from there when I sprayed that finish.
Feel free to post any questions here as there are a lot of experienced finishers on this ng.
I bought a used turbine rig about three years ago and at time had done very little spraying with a compressor gun. I use my turbine almost once a week now and wonder how I lived without it. I find it easier to use than the conventional gun compressor set up.
I spray a lot of waterbased acrylic. I have 10 Gallons sitting in my shop waiting to be applied.....Yup 10 gallons. I have no problem with runs and sags when I spray and I don't think three coats is "lots of coats"?
That's a Milwaukee 5625-20, 3 1/2 HP. It works grrreat!!. I also have 2 Hitachi M12V routers that I acquired well before the Milwaukee came on the market. I was pleased with them but the Milwaukee is even better. Now I can put a panel raising bit in the Mil., a rail bit in one Hit. and a stile bit in the other and really get after it on cabinet doors without changing bits.
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