TiteBond Responce from Headquarters

Page 6 of 6  
wrote:

I think they must do that from time to time. I remember a few months back they tested various materials for shelf boards, and their tests somehow "demonstrated" pine to be stronger than red oak. Yeah, right.
-- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)
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Not yet, probably tonight.

OK, ...

More to the point, the Chevy is called the Chevy Treecutter, but buried in the owners manual is a statement "Not to be used for taking down trees".

No, I think they shouldn't call it the Chevy Treecutter.
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Right. While I don't absolve Franklin for touting waterproof, (as opposed to resistant) it does meet the ANSI standards. The front label should have an asterisk pointing out the standard it meets. It should be tested in accordance with intended use to be meaningful to the consumer.
If the tester says "this is good for strength, but turns black" I will not use it on my whirligigs, but it will be my first choice for the ebony laundry cart I'm building.
In this case, even though it failed at a fairly low psi, it is perhaps more than I'd need anyway. Wood Magazine did not bother to tell us that. Ed
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wrote:

This whole debate does beg another question - now that I've gotten my copy of the review read - just how strong does glue need to be for holding stuff together? What is the force in terms of a 3/4" edge glued table top that hangs over 8" when you put a stack of textbooks on it? The PSI figures make for great comparisons, but I would like to know how to relate that to the real world.
Tim Douglass
http://www.DouglassClan.com
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Exactly,
Or...... :~) for instance how many times could your 350 lb sister in law use the edge of the table as a place to lean on after you have boiled the table top 2 times.
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On Thu, 15 Jul 2004 17:56:55 GMT, "Leon"

You'll probably want to boil it after every time she leans on it - especially if you plan on eating off it later.
Tim Douglass
http://www.DouglassClan.com
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wrote:

law
EEeeuuwww... I had not taken that image that far yet... Thanks. ;~)
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On Fri, 16 Jul 2004 20:37:04 GMT, "Leon"

No problem... :-(
Tim Douglass
http://www.DouglassClan.com
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On Thu, 15 Jul 2004 10:17:04 -0700, Tim Douglass

it needs to be a little stronger than the wood.
elmer's white glue is plenty strong- and it has more open time than any of the yellow glues, for those situations where you have a complex assembly that won't see wet service.
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wrote:

When I was in college I had a buddy who knocked down trees AND submerged his Chevy. (Or was that an International.) It didn't look too good, but did go where he wanted to go. Usually...umm...sometimes...well, he'd ask me for a lift to class occasionally...Maybe some glue woulda helped...
Dan
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wrote:

When I was in college I had a buddy who knocked down trees AND submerged his Chevy. (Or was that an International?) It didn't look too good, but did go where he wanted to go. Usually...umm...sometimes...well, he'd ask me for a lift to class occasionally...Maybe some glue woulda helped...
Dan
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Tue, Jul 13, 2004, 4:58pm (EDT+4) snipped-for-privacy@snet.net (EdwinPawlowski) says: It may be hogwash, but it is a standard and a common ground for comparisons.<snip>
You'd expect the government to step in and make them only say waterproof if it actually is. But, the government is the ones that said Clinton didn't have sex, Grade B beef is now Grade A, and so on. Common ground for comparison is probably the best we can look for.
What they told me was it is not so good when submerged for 24 hours. <snip>
I'd like to know what the results are after they've dried out for a few days. Even more, I'd like to know the test results if they'd let the glues set for a month or so before their test.
That's for curiosity only, doesn't really matter, I'm not tossing my Titebond II, and when it's gone, I plan on getting more. If I needed lower glue-up temps, or time, then I'd consider III. But, I don't, so it's II.
JOAT
We've got a lot of experience of not having any experience. - Nanny Ogg
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<<<<<<<<<<<,, snip snip >>>>>>>>>>>>>

Please don't give anybody ideas about another way for the government to control our lives. Let the market decide. If Franklin gets enough complaints, or if sales falter, they will "fix" it. It is early yet and I am still willing to give Franklin an opportunity to respond. Besides, I am not going to build anything that is going underwater for more than a few seconds or minutes, and I don't think that 99.999% of the people that purchase TBIII will either. Personally, I think they either need to remove the waterproof labelling because that implies that water will not affect the product at all, or more clearly define their definition of waterproof on the container.
Wayne
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What is wrong with advance advertising?
Yeah - that woudl be smart way to destroy 70 years of good will...
Mike

they
the
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This morning I received an e-mail form Craig Stone and I have extended an invitation to him or a company representative to participate in the group. If some of you would also like for them to participate, please make that request to Titebond also so that I am not the only one they see offering the invitation.
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I'm in... Do you have the email for Mr. Stone?
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Never mind - I see you posted it already...
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In the response I received back from TB on the use of waterproof on their bottle I asked about the ANSI/HPVA tests. Where is information that I can view without paying $75 Dollars..
The Response I received was: "If you go to our website www.titebond.com, select FAQs, and then go to Woodworking Glues. Scroll down and it will provide a "layperson" description of the two ANSI/HPVA tests. If you are looking for the actual test method, which is cumbersome and difficult to read, feel free to contact our Technical Support Group at 1-800-347-4583."
I did and the here is what is posted:
Frome website FAQ:
"What is the difference between the ANSI/HPVA Type I and Type II water-resistance specification?"
Notice how they say Water-resistance specification. Where is the word Waterproof???????????
answer:
"Both of these tests are conducted using 6" by 6" birch laminates glued together to make three-ply plywood. The test for Type I is clearly more stringent than Type II, and involves boiling the glue bonds and testing the specimens while they are wet.
Type I testing involves cutting the 6" by 6" assemblies into 1" by 3" specimens, boiling them for 4 hours, then baking the specimens in a 145F oven for 20 hours. They are boiled for an additional 4 hours, then immediately cooled using running water. The specimens are sheared while wet, and the bonds must pass certain strength and wood failure requirements to pass the Type I specification.
Type II testing involves cutting the 6" by 6" assemblies into 2" by 5" specimens, soaking them for 4 hours, then baking the specimens in a 120F oven for 19 hours. This is repeated for a total of three cycles, and the bonds must not delaminate to pass the Type II specification."
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I read one of the descriptions of Type I and found the words Water Proof only in the title.
Notice that Water Proof is only in the Name of the test and not in the description. I suspect this is where Titebond gets its Water Proof definition.
I got this information from http://dl1.woodinst.com/pdfdocs/2003-MM/03Glosry.pdf
ADHESIVE, TYPE I FULLY WATERPROOF: Forms a bond that will retain practically all of its strength when occasionally
subjected to a thorough wetting and drying; bond shall be of such quality that specimens will withstand shear and two cycle boil test
specified in ANSI/HPVA HP (2000).
ADHESIVE, TYPE II WATER-RESISTANT: Forms a bond that will retain practically all of its strength when occasionally
subjected to a thorough wetting and drying; bond shall be of such quality that specimens will withstand the three cycle cold soak
test specified in ANSI/HPVA HP (2000).
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Thu, Jul 15, 2004, 5:32am (EDT+4) snipped-for-privacy@address.invaIid puts out his words: <snip of namecalling>
I'm quite sure everyone here has the proper awe your scatological command of the English language deserves.
However, instead of continually repeating yourself, why don't you post links to some of your woodworking projects instead? I, for one, don't recall seeing any examples.
JOAT
We've got a lot of experience of not having any experience. - Nanny Ogg
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